# Who wants to defend pirating content (movies/music/books/software/whatever)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948 "2008-11-22T02:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/161 "2008-11-23T23:36:49Z")
> [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > So exercise your rights as a consumer and don’t purchase their product. That’s exactly what I do. > [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > By distributing the game in violation of the licence. OK, care to explain how that’s possible? > [@Dead Badger](#): > > It’s called “falsification”. A claim is made (e.g. that pirates pirate for ethical reasons). A counterexample is found (a company that ticks none of the pirates’ unethical boxes, yet is still pirated). The claim is disproved. This is really quite basic stuff, you know. That would only disprove the claim if the claim said “every time” at the end. Again, the plural of “anecdote” is not “data”, and the plural of “poorly-thought-out fraction problem” is also not “data”. > [@Dead Badger](#): > > he agreed that the direct IP:licence ratio wasn’t the best measure, and ran through a number of extra steps to make the figure more robust, still arriving at a very high piracy rate. His extra steps are bullshit, IMO. Using the number of discrete IPs is a ludicrously stupid method and no amount of post-hoc statistical wiggling can change that. > [@Dead Badger](#): > > Care to justify that in any way at all? He got lots of publicity (for an independent game) pre-release because his game was quirky, original and he released a good demo. This had nothing to do with piracy, which only started after the game was released. This “piracy benefits the publisher” line is so much crap. Really? Then why was The Eminem Show the highest-selling album of the year when it came out, despite also being the most pirated? > [@Dead Badger](#): > > Other people prefer to be paid up front for their work, and that is their right too. This is just silly. Nobody has a “right” to be paid at all for their work. Maybe their work isn’t worth paying for. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/162 "2008-11-23T23:40:51Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > I don’t see why you’re having a hard time understanding this, to be honest. It’s not tricky. Pirates keep telling us that they do what they do because publishers are evil in various ways. Here is one that is not evil, and yet it still gets pirated. Ergo, pirates don’t actually give a shit who they’re taking from. Nobody said they pirate because publishers are evil. First and foremost, people pirate because they want something. But there is not necessarily anything wrong with that; in fact, it can be a good thing, because availability of information is a good thing for its own sake. For example, copyright laws are ridiculous, so there is nothing wrong with pirating material that is either old enough that it should be free, or that is unavailable through realistic legal means. The “evil” of the publishers is not the reason for pirating; it is the lack of a reason not to. DRM gives justification for pirating, because no fully functional legal product is being offered. As for 2dboy, you are making several classic statistical mistakes. 1. The sample cannot be considered a random sample from the population of all pirates. At best, you can consider it a random sample from the population of video game pirates (even this is a dangerous assumption because the game is so obscure). This is a very different group than, say, music pirates. 2. You are asking the wrong question. The percentage of people playing who are pirates gives you precisely zero information about whether pirating hurt sales. Given the data, pirating may have increased sales. There is no way to tell. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/163 "2008-11-24T00:09:17Z")
I have a copy of ages of empires 3. Well I sort of do. I have disks 1, 2, and 3. Disk 1 was damaged so that it was partially unreadable. It still worked for the in the cd drive check but I couldn’t install off it. Well I had a drive failure, and low and behold when I went to reinstall the game it wouldn’t install. No problem I thought! You see I made some back up isos. So I could reburn disk 1 on a blank disk and use it for reinstalling. Then use the real disk 1 for the cd check. Nope, installer wouldn’t even run off the backup disk. I checked a popular torrent website and all three disks are there and working. So that little bomb isn’t stopping piracy. It appears Microsoft expects me to rebuy the game because the disk was damaged. What’s the point of that? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/164 "2008-11-24T01:19:35Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > As for 2dboy, you are making several classic statistical mistakes. > > 1. The sample cannot be considered a random sample from the population of all pirates. At best, you can consider it a random sample from the population of video game pirates (even this is a dangerous assumption because the game is so obscure). This is a very different group than, say, music pirates. I don’t see why the game’s relative obscurity is a factor. As for a skewed sample, the whole _point_ is that if most pirates genuinely claim to be moral beings, one would expect those pirating World of Goo to be a small subset of pirates, and thus observe a reduced overall piracy rate. And yet this is not what we see. > [@](#): > > 1. You are asking the wrong question. The percentage of people playing who are pirates gives you precisely zero information about whether pirating hurt sales. For what feels like the hundredth time, I am _not_ talking about whether piracy hurts sales. I am talking about whether pirates can ethically justify their actions. The fact that pirates are willing to steal from a tiny software house that bends over backwards to cater for its customers proves to me that most pirates just take stuff because they want it, and because it’s really easy. It’s not about sales, it’s not even about DRM. It’s about people taking stuff without paying, and the reasons behind it. If you want examples of people justifying pirates’ actions by wittering on about evil publishers and downtrodden artists, then I suggest you re-read this thread a bit more closely. Posts 27, 33, 44 to an extent, 52, 85 in spades, 120 and so on are all to one degree or another invoking the apparent reprehensibility of the content industry to justify or in some way exculpate pirates. You’re doing it yourself, in fact. DRM is _not_ a justification for piracy. It is a reason not to purchase a product (a very good reason in some instances, I quite agree). _That_ is the consumer’s remedy for a product he dislikes - he chooses not to buy it. He does not take it anyway, and call it freedom of information. This is what I’m objecting to - this bullshit recasting of casual immorality as some sort of noble quest against wrongdoers. Music is not so essential nor so scarce that we are forced to take it if it’s not offered in a form to our liking. So much free software exists that entire operating systems and application suites can be assembled without once touching any work with even a hint of proprietary code. So why pretend we’re somehow strong-armed into piracy? Why is DRM’d software different from any other product we just don’t want to buy? > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > This is just silly. Nobody has a “right” to be paid at all for their work. Maybe their work isn’t worth paying for. Christ, is it really possible for you to be this thick? They have a right to be paid _if people use their work_. If it’s not worth paying for, then _don’t take it_. Jesus, if we really are going to have to take it back to this sort of basic level, we might as well all go home. > [@](#): > > Really? Then why was The Eminem Show the highest-selling album of the year when it came out, despite also being the most pirated? Er, because it was really popular with pirates and honest people alike? You seem convinced that I’m trying to say something about piracy affecting sales one way or the other. I am not. All I’m saying is that despite their manifold protestations to the contrary, pirates are cunts who don’t give a shit about the little guy. Or they’re Proudhonnists like you, I guess, but for some reason I don’t think the average Limewire user is all that in to anarchist philosophy. They just want free shit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/165 "2008-11-24T02:53:47Z")
What about cases like mine where a legitimately purchased product was crippled by copyright protection? If I were to download the cracked version of disk 1 I bet it’d show up on the piracy figures, but is it really piracy? Am I immoral? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/166 "2008-11-24T05:43:02Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > I don’t see why the game’s relative obscurity is a factor. As for a skewed sample, the whole _point_ is that if most pirates genuinely claim to be moral beings, one would expect those pirating World of Goo to be a small subset of pirates, and thus observe a reduced overall piracy rate. And yet this is not what we see. No one is saying that the people who pirated World of Goo aren’t unethical fucks. What we are saying is that the piracy rate reported by 2dboy seems very high and that citing it has little if anything to do with whether or not piracy really matters with regards to sales, even in this case and even if the 90% figure is true. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/167 "2008-11-24T05:56:59Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Indeed not - but this thread is about defending piracy in general. What always amazes me is how almost _everyone_ who comes out of the woodwork in these threads has a wonderful narrative about how their piracy is fine; how their reason for taking others’ original works is sound, and moral. We get laundry lists of things that artists/publishers need to do to avoid piracy. It usually comes down to convenience, allowing consumers the ability to try before they buy, and a load of shit about how publishers are parasites and don’t deserve money. The World of Goo example illustrates how all of those arguments are, in the round, a crock of shit. Okay so what about me, I download TV Shows from the US as Im in Australia and will possibly not get them (Pushing Daisies and Chuck as examples). If I download more than one episode (call it 5 max) I’ll get the rest of the season and purchase it when available from [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) (thus breaching another form of copyright protection). I am unable to purchase and download these shows legitimately from iTunes (US) nor [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) (their new download option) which would be my preference, and all of them are available on the affiliated networks websites for viewing IF I lived in the US at no additional fee. Yet I am purchasing the shows when they’re available, thus the network and distributors are not cost any money, am I a pirate or not? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/168 "2008-11-24T06:10:20Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > Okay so what about me, I download TV Shows from the US as Im in Australia and will possibly not get them (Pushing Daisies and Chuck as examples). > > If I download more than one episode (call it 5 max) I’ll get the rest of the season and purchase it when available from [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) (thus breaching another form of copyright protection). > > I am unable to purchase and download these shows legitimately from iTunes (US) nor [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) (their new download option) which would be my preference, and all of them are available on the affiliated networks websites for viewing IF I lived in the US at no additional fee. > > Yet I am purchasing the shows when they’re available, thus the network and distributors are not cost any money, am I a pirate or not? FYI proxies man. American proxy and suddenly the internet thinks you’re in America! ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/169 "2008-11-24T06:50:19Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > one would expect those pirating World of Goo to be a small subset of pirates, and thus observe a reduced overall piracy rate. Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. As expected, the vast majority of pirates did not pirate The World of Goo. Only a tiny subset of pirates pirated Goo. This does not mean the _percentage_ of players who pirated it will be low. It means the absolute quantity of players who pirated it will be small, which it is. Many less people pirated Goo than pirate well-known games with DRM. I’m not sure what conclusions you can really draw from the percentage. But whatever they are, they are not applicable to pirates in general. Video game pirates are different than people who only download mp3s. Video game pirates who search for obscure games are probably some of the most hardcore pirates around. > [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > DRM is _not_ a justification for piracy. It is a reason not to purchase a product (a very good reason in some instances, I quite agree). _That_ is the consumer’s remedy for a product he dislikes - he chooses not to buy it. He does not take it anyway, and call it freedom of information. This is what I’m objecting to - this bullshit recasting of casual immorality as some sort of noble quest against wrongdoers. This is where we probably have a difference in morals. I don’t think anyone has a “moral right” to completely control their own creative output. I disagree that such a “moral right” even exists. If you put something out there, I do not respect your choice to take it back and hide it for 100 years, or to attach malware to it to prevent people from using it. Once you put something out there, it is part of a larger world, and while you have significant control over it, you don’t have complete control. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/170 "2008-11-24T11:41:39Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > As for a skewed sample, the whole point is that if most pirates genuinely claim to be moral beings, one would expect those pirating World of Goo to be a small subset of pirates, and thus observe a reduced overall piracy rate. And yet this is not what we see. :dubious: Really? Why should an obscure game also not attract only a small subset of buyers? > [@Dead Badger](#): > > Er, because it was really popular with pirates and honest people alike? You seem convinced that I’m trying to say something about piracy affecting sales one way or the other. I am not. All I’m saying is that despite their manifold protestations to the contrary, pirates are cunts who don’t give a shit about the little guy. And you’ve provided shit all for data to back up that broad-brush claim. That being said… > [@Dead Badger](#): > > They just want free shit. Well, yeah, of course we want free shit. 'Else we would buy the damn stuff. 😃 Look, I’m not saying everyone who pirates data is a philosopher. Far from it, judging from the fact that Madagascar 2, Bolt, Prison Break and “christmas” appear to be some of the most popular searches at one of the biggest torrent sites out there right now. I was asked to defend pirating content and I defended it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/171 "2008-11-24T15:39:32Z")
Little late to the party here, but I personally “pirate” in three situations– A) Games, especially niche ones, that have no demo, for the purpose of pre-purchase review, in which case I generally limit myself to an hour or two of play. B) Games or software that are no longer available for legal acquisition. This excuse does not count if one refuses to make an effort. (I shit ye not, I once spent $15 cost+shipping for a copy of Lords of the Realm 2–two freakin’ years ago.) C) I will install pirate copies of games at LAN parties or other multiplayer gaming sessions–and then generally buy the game the following week. Basically, I only condone “piracy” of a full piece of software when there is no available avenue to acquire said software legally. I fully condone downloading “pirate” copies to avoid DRM or to compensate for lost/destroyed install media of a software title one already owns. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/172 "2008-11-25T01:57:37Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > FYI proxies man. American proxy and suddenly the internet thinks you’re in America! I’m lazy so I tried using [megaproxy.com](http://megaproxy.com) but unfortunately it didn’t work, their site hated passing the Java and cookie onto the proper sites. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/173 "2008-11-25T02:19:54Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > I’m lazy so I tried using [megaproxy.com](http://megaproxy.com) but unfortunately it didn’t work, their site hated passing the Java and cookie onto the proper sites. I think good proxies are hard to come by, unless you have an american friend with a fast connection who can set one up for you. Unless you pay you’re likely to find only terribly slow and unreliable ones. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/174 "2008-11-25T04:48:10Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > I think good proxies are hard to come by, unless you have an american friend with a fast connection who can set one up for you. Unless you pay you’re likely to find only terribly slow and unreliable ones. Yeah unfortunately I had paid for Megaproxy after my brother saw it on one of the TechTV shows. Given the relative ease of using other means to get my shows before purchasing them, it’s easier just to continue using them. I had considered purchasing US iTunes gift cards to make an American account with them to allow me to download shows legally and then found that they (Apple) consider this a breach of their Terms of Use and will suspend your account (including funds) if they find you doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/175 "2008-11-25T10:11:33Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > That’s exactly what I do. That’s a pretty disingenuous way of looking at piracy. > [@](#): > > OK, care to explain how that’s possible? 😕 There’s about a million different open source licenses, not to mention bespoke licenses that individual developers use. Do you expect me to summarise each one? Here’s an obvious one: the open source project I’m a developer of requires all distributors to include the program’s source code, and any derivative works _must_ be open source. Any failure to keep to the licensing agreement will be treated just like any other act of piracy. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/176 "2008-11-25T16:59:48Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > Okay so what about me, I download TV Shows from the US as Im in Australia and will possibly not get them (Pushing Daisies and Chuck as examples). This kind of thing is pretty common with anime. Many fansub groups will cease distributing a show if it gets licensed for the US, or at the very least (if the show is long and ongoing) remove torrents of early episodes. There’s also a good-sized body of older shows that either never were picked up state-side, or were and are no longer available. I’m not about to jump down someone’s throat for downloading something that isn’t available in their native region. The reasons for pirating are endless. Some people use it as a ‘try before you buy’. Some use it for bodies of work that are nearly if not impossible to get legally in a usable form. Some people do it because they want something but can’t afford it, or don’t think it’s worth the price. Others just don’t give a fuck and will download anything they can get their hands on. Obviously, some of these reasons have more of a moral base to work from than others. Personally, I figure if the person wouldn’t have bought the item in question were pirating not an option, no harm is done. Hell, there are some people who only buy _because_ pirating allowed them a cheap way of finding out if the product was worth buying–I certainly have a number of DVDs I probably wouldn’t have bought if not for less than legal viewing options. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/177 "2008-11-25T17:20:13Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Basically, it’s a bad time to be an indy developer of quirky, unique games because so many of them appear to be assholes. (To be fair, I’ve heard the 2dboy guys are really good people, so this shouldn’t apply to them). I getting the same vibe too. I got a feeling (DISCLAIMER: _just a feeling_) that they see people playing hardcore mainstream games like DMC, RA3, LOTRO:MoM as lacking in inspiration and etc. Their horse seems to be higher than those of Bill Roper and such. But I admire them for their no-nonsense, straight to point talk, instead of the usual corporate double-speak. (The game sucks, they know it, but in their press release it is full of positive goodness that is like drowning people in gurgle) The more I hear about the creator of Braid going on and on about his ‘unique’ design makes me less likely want to get it. I rather get an indie game whose creator shows some humility. PS. Off tangent too. Not saying that 2D boy is in the above league, but indie game has ways to go to get accepted. Even causal games are doing better (btw, indie != casual. Not necessary, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/178 "2008-11-25T20:30:15Z")
> [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > That’s a pretty disingenuous way of looking at piracy. Whatever. I was asked to defend my actions and I did. The fact is that I don’t pay for things that are worse than the equivalent free service. > [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > There’s about a million different open source licenses, not to mention bespoke licenses that individual developers use. Do you expect me to summarise each one? Here’s an obvious one: the open source project I’m a developer of requires all distributors to include the program’s source code, and any derivative works must be open source. Any failure to keep to the licensing agreement will be treated just like any other act of piracy. Fair enough. I wasn’t thinking about the source-inclusion requirement. Here’s an interesting question for you, though. I am, as we speak, using BitTorrent to download the most recent version of Debian stable. I’m downloading images for the binary discs (DVD). Since I’m using the official torrent link from [debian.org](http://debian.org), the source is obviously available right there. But I’m downloading the images from seeders who are only seeding the binary images. I, myself, am also seeding the binary images exclusively, not the source images. Are we pirating the content? I’m not trying to catch you in a trap, I’m genuinely curious to hear the perspective on this from an open source developer. > [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > I certainly have a number of DVDs I probably wouldn’t have bought if not for less than legal viewing options. This. As soon as I get a job, I’m buying the DVDs for _They Live_ and _The Wackness_ for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/179 "2008-11-25T21:21:39Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Any thieves out there who have deluded themselves into thinking there is nothing wrong with doing this? I don’t know about nothing wrong, but I think the benefits can outweigh the harm. Ferinstance, as others have stated theft of music is not a zero-sum issue like stealing a car. As you’ve pointed out, it has other effects on the artists, distributor, competing bands and consumers, etc. It has pluses also though. I’ve bought albums by bands I would have never heard if not for pirating. That needs to be weighed. I’ve been to concerts of bands that I would never have heard of if not for priating. That needs to be weighed. There are a couple bands that have suffered because I might have purchased their albums if not for piracy, but overall I’ve given the industry more because of piracy. Every study seems to show that piracy does not cause the music industry any harm in the aggregate either. I wonder if you have deluded yourself into thinking that there is nothing right with doing this? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/180 "2008-11-25T23:25:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s an interesting question for you, though. I am, as we speak, using BitTorrent to download the most recent version of Debian stable. I’m downloading images for the binary discs (DVD). Since I’m using the official torrent link from [debian.org](http://debian.org), the source is obviously available right there. But I’m downloading the images from seeders who are only seeding the binary images. I, myself, am also seeding the binary images exclusively, not the source images. Are we pirating the content? > > I’m not trying to catch you in a trap, I’m genuinely curious to hear the perspective on this from an open source developer. No. It’s covered under Section 6e of the GPL, for instance. FWIW, [here’s](http://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/) a summary of the main licenses currently used in Debian’s main branch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948.md?page=10)