# Who was Hitler before Hitler was Hitler? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180 "2014-09-11T14:08:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/1 "2014-09-11T14:08:18Z")
Ever since the 1940s, Adolf Hitler, independent (or at least as an outgrowth) of his historical significance, has become a universal symbol of evil. He’s almost a cipher, a shorthand for “as evil as a human being can possibly be.” He practically salted he cultural ground he walked on, to the point that his once-common given name and mustache instantly went out of style, never to recover (so far). Before Hitler, was there ever anyone else who was so synonymous with evil? I mean, what did people use to Godwinize a discussion in the 19th century? _"You know who else wore fur hats? **THAT’S RIGHT, THE MONGOL HORDE!"** _ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/2 "2014-09-11T14:10:51Z")
Napoleon Bonaparte? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/3 "2014-09-11T14:11:38Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Ever since the 1940s, Adolf Hitler, independent (or at least as an outgrowth) of his historical significance, has become a universal symbol of evil. He’s almost a cipher, a shorthand for “as evil as a human being can possibly be.” He practically salted he cultural ground he walked on, to the point that his once-common given name and mustache instantly went out of style, never to recover (so far). > > Before Hitler, was there ever anyone else who was so synonymous with evil? I mean, what did people use to Godwinize a discussion in the 19th century? _"You know who else wore fur hats? **THAT’S RIGHT, THE MONGOL HORDE!"** _ Attila the Hun, for sheer destructive barbarism. Calling the Germans “Huns” in WW1, for example. Machiavelli, for unscrupulousness. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/4 "2014-09-11T14:26:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Napoleon Bonaparte? I never understood why people consider him to be so evil. Sure, he wanted to rule the world, but so did so many others. It’s not like he even had a chance. ---
**Author:** ![MG1692](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MG1692](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MG1692)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/5 "2014-09-11T14:31:33Z")
In England that was definitely Napoleon. Having read a couple of history books from the late 1800s the perception of him was truly poison compared to more recent tellings of his story. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/6 "2014-09-11T14:33:54Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I never understood why people consider him to be so evil. Sure, he wanted to rule the world, but so did so many others. It’s not like he even had a chance. Nevertheless, I think he was used as a shorthand for Evil. (Also, people thinking they’re Napoleon was shorthand for Crazy.) I never thought of him as Evil, so much as ‘ambitious’. But I’m not an expert on European history. ETA: **MG1692** ’s post makes sense as to why he was seen as evil. . ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/7 "2014-09-11T14:35:44Z")
Hägar the Horrible was a nasty piece of work. Ivan the Terrible was not very nice either. And Vlad the Impaler was really disgusting. Really, anyone with “the” as their middle name you could pretty much count on being evil. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/8 "2014-09-11T14:38:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Hägar the Horrible was a nasty piece of work. Pretty sure he never did anything worse than taking too long between showers. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/9 "2014-09-11T14:41:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Hägar the Horrible was a nasty piece of work. > > Ivan the Terrible was not very nice either. > > And Vlad the Impaler was really disgusting. > Really, anyone with “the” as their middle name you could pretty much count on being evil. Winnie the Pooh. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/10 "2014-09-11T14:43:54Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Winnie the Pooh. What do Winnie the Pooh and John the Baptist have in common? Their middle name. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/11 "2014-09-11T14:44:15Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I never understood why people consider him to be so evil. Sure, he wanted to rule the world, but so did so many others. It’s not like he even had a chance. Well there was the whole invading other countries and bringing years of war and suffering to Europe part. But aside from that he was an OK guy. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/12 "2014-09-11T14:48:08Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Well there was the whole invading other countries and bringing years of war and suffering to Europe part. But aside from that he was an OK guy. Yeah, but he was a “moderniser”. That gives him carte blanche to go about invading countries and being nasty to all who opposed him. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/13 "2014-09-11T15:01:04Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Winnie the Pooh. A thieving honey bear. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/14 "2014-09-11T15:02:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > A thieving honey bear. History’s greatest monster. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/15 "2014-09-11T15:02:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > A thieving honey bear. Obligatory [_Pooh Goes Apeshit_](http://www.skrause.org/humor/poohgoesapeshit.shtml) link. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/16 "2014-09-11T15:21:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Hägar the Horrible was a nasty piece of work. > > Ivan the Terrible was not very nice either. > > And Vlad the Impaler was really disgusting. > Really, anyone with “the” as their middle name you could pretty much count on being evil. Nitpick, most people outside of Romania (where he was considered a harsh, but heroic figure) didn’t know about Vlad the Impaler. Other than his mention in Bram Stroker’s Dracula he didn’t get a lot of attention and many of the readers of Dracula assumed Stroker’s work was completely fictionalized. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/17 "2014-09-11T15:24:57Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Nitpick, most people outside of Romania (where he was considered a harsh, but heroic figure) didn’t know about Vlad the Impaler. Other than his mention in Bram Stroker’s Dracula he didn’t get a lot of attention and many of the readers of Dracula assumed Stroker’s work was completely fictionalized. Agreed - again, to my mind, the best paralel would be Attila the Hun - not because his actual history was well known, but because of the use of his name (and that of his nation) to define barbaric brutality. If you called someone a “Hun”, outside of Hungary, it wasn’t a complement. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/18 "2014-09-11T15:37:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Agreed - again, to my mind, the best paralel would be Attila **the** Hun -… My hypothesis stands. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/19 "2014-09-11T15:38:25Z")
[Previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647118). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180/20 "2014-09-11T15:42:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647118). And in that thread this: > [@Who was the standard-bearer for EVIL prior to Hitler?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/21): > > Previous thread on the [subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=373825) It’s like a fractal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler-was-hitler/698180.md?page=2)