# Who was Hitler before Hitler/ **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128 "2008-04-20T16:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/1 "2008-04-20T16:37:43Z")
Today, if you really want to tar somebody’s ideas, you compare that person to Hitler. But, who were the people that were used as references before Hitler? Some guesses on my part: - Genghis Khan - Nero - Ivan IV of Russia - Pontius Pilate - Caiaphas (Yosef Bar Kayafa) - Kaiser Wilhelm II - Attila The Hun - Leopold II of Belgium Did any of these people (or others) have the near universal status as the most wicked man in history that Hitler holds today? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/2 "2008-04-20T16:40:20Z")
Napoleon would be a big choice. In the United States, he’s remember with some interest as a symbol of a Romanic era, sort of like the Gone With the Wind and The Civil War. But he was responsible for vast, destructive, continent-spanning war which left millions dead. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/3 "2008-04-20T16:58:31Z")
Louis XIV, in his day. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/4 "2008-04-20T17:04:50Z")
Imperialists of a few centuries ago were often compared to Julius Caesar. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/5 "2008-04-20T17:37:20Z")
Mr A.T. Hun was widely used as the classic example of murdering barbarian. Hun was used a derogatory term for Germans in WWI. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/6 "2008-04-20T20:15:26Z")
Nero has been for centuries a byword for wickedness. This is probably because, although he was far less wicked than Caligula, he was the first Roman emperor to actively persecute the Christians. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/7 "2008-04-20T20:49:50Z")
King Herod was the embodiment of evil for Christians. In the Morality plays he stalks around the stage boasting, swearing, and behaving generally like a mad tyrant. The Sultan of the Turkish Empire (or the Great Turk) was also depicted as a monster of evil and cruelty in the West. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/8 "2008-04-20T20:53:29Z")
Back in the mid to late 1700’s it was Bill O’Reilly, but back then he was going by Baron Munchausen. Honest. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/9 "2008-04-20T23:12:31Z")
The works of Macaulay contain many references to Napoleon as the vile monster who enslaved half of Europe. Whereas today, if anyone here thinks of Napoleon it’s of a tubby little man with one arm stuffed up his jumper saying “Not tonight, Josephine”. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/10 "2008-04-21T00:20:51Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] The works of Macaulay contain many references to Napoleon as the vile monster who enslaved half of Europe. Whereas today, if anyone here thinks of Napoleon it’s of a tubby little man with one arm stuffed up his jumper saying “Not tonight, Josephine”. [/QUOTE] For some reason, during the first half of the 20th century Napoleon was the person who the stereotypical “crazy person” usually thought he was, in popular culture in America. Was that also the case in the UK? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/11 "2008-04-21T11:15:55Z")
‘delusions of grandeur’ characters are usually dressed as Napoleon ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/12 "2008-04-21T11:43:16Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] For some reason, during the first half of the 20th century Napoleon was the person who the stereotypical “crazy person” usually thought he was, in popular culture in America. Was that also the case in the UK? [/QUOTE] Yes indeed. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/13 "2008-04-21T12:36:18Z")
Who is today’s stereotypical crazy person - here in the USA and elsewhere, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/14 "2008-04-21T12:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] Who is today’s stereotypical crazy person - here in the USA and elsewhere, perhaps? [/QUOTE] I think Tom Cruise has made some serious inroads to being permanently remembered that way. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/15 "2008-04-21T12:56:09Z")
Napoleon was never stereotyped as a “crazy person”, but rather, people who \*thought \* they were Napoleon were a stereotype for crazy people. There’s a difference. Napoleon didn’t have delusions of grandeur because in his specific case, they weren’t delusions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/16 "2008-04-21T13:09:55Z")
Yet, for some reason, you never see a “crazy person” dressed as Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/17 "2008-04-21T13:18:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Yet, for some reason, you never see a “crazy person” dressed as Hitler. [/QUOTE] Maybe you do - you just don’t see it in cartoons, because it wouldn’t be very funny. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/18 "2008-04-21T13:20:38Z")
Vlad the Impaler and Erzabet Bathory come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/19 "2008-04-21T13:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Vlad the Impaler and Erzabet Bathory come to mind. [/QUOTE] Vlad was a name to frighten with in his (brief) day, but hardly anybody outside the Carpathians and Balkans remembered him when Stoker wrote _Dracula._ In fact, Stoker [seems to have chosen him for that reason:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_impaler#The_vampire_legend_and_Romanian_attitudes) > [@](#): > > Given the history of the vampire legend in Europe it is perhaps natural that Stoker should place his great vampire in the heart of the region that gave birth to the story. Once Stoker had determined on a locality Vlad Dracula would stand out as one of the most notorious rulers of the selected region. He was obscure enough that few would recognize the name and those who did would know him for his acts of brutal cruelty; Dracula was a natural candidate for vampirism. > > Tales of vampires are still widespread in Eastern Europe. Similarly, the name of Dracula is still remembered in the Romanian oral tradition but that is the end of any connection between Dracula and the folkloric vampire. Outside of Stoker’s novel the name of Dracula was never linked with the vampires encountered in the folklore. Despite his alleged inhuman cruelty, in Romania Dracula is remembered as a national hero who resisted the Turkish conquerors and asserted Romanian national sovereignty against the powerful Hungarian kingdom. He is also remembered in a similar manner in other Balkan countries, as he fought against the Turks. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-hitler-before-hitler/446128/20 "2008-04-21T15:44:54Z")
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