# Who was the earliest "hottie"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988 "2007-04-13T17:30:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/21 "2007-04-13T19:37:01Z")
I know it’s funny to say “Lucy” and “Eve” and be big nerds, but it’s a valid OP, and it’s RIGHT THERE: > [@](#): > > who is the earliest known person who would pass as a “hottie” by **today’s standards**? Why do people think they’re so funny that they have to completely derail valid threads? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/22 "2007-04-13T19:38:14Z")
My great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother takes umbrage at your OP, sirrah! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/23 "2007-04-13T19:38:56Z")
This [image](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00018D3ZA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) is from a really, really long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/24 "2007-04-13T19:39:27Z")
Oh, and to WAG a guess at the OP, I’ll say Cleopatra. She was real and also really purty, right? ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_And\_Candy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b782af/32.png) [@Clockwork\_And\_Candy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_And_Candy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/25 "2007-04-13T19:44:43Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Oh, and to WAG a guess at the OP, I’ll say Cleopatra. She was real and also really purty, right? [/QUOTE] I thought that Cleopatra wasn’t particularly attractive but rather men fell for her because she was smart and charming. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/26 "2007-04-13T19:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=Clockwork And Candy] I thought that Cleopatra wasn’t particularly attractive but rather men fell for her because she was smart and charming. [/QUOTE] I checked out her wikipedia link and damn, that’s not a pretty mug at all by modern standards. You may be right. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/27 "2007-04-13T19:59:48Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] I know it’s funny to say “Lucy” and “Eve” and be big nerds, but it’s a valid OP, and it’s RIGHT THERE: Why do people think they’re so funny that they have to completely derail valid threads? [/QUOTE] I don’t think they “completely derail” the thread any more than your post did. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/28 "2007-04-13T20:06:34Z")
A tad too plump for my taste, I admit, but Dolley Madison (1768-1849) was a hottie, I’d say: [http://www2.ku.edu/~maxkade/humboldt/Dolleyport1b.jpg](http://www2.ku.edu/~maxkade/humboldt/Dolleyport1b.jpg) Josephine, Napoleon’s empress, had her charms: [http://www.best-of-perigord.tm.fr/sites/musees/napoleon/josephine.jpg](http://www.best-of-perigord.tm.fr/sites/musees/napoleon/josephine.jpg) Emma Hamilton, Lord Nelson’s mistress, was easy on the eyes, too: [http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Emma-cameo.jpg](http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Emma-cameo.jpg) As in all matters aesthetic, of course, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/29 "2007-04-13T20:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Oh, and to WAG a guess at the OP, I’ll say Cleopatra. She was real and also really purty, right? [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t be so sure of that. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | England | Tyne | Coin shows Cleopatra's ugly truth](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/6357311.stm)** > > A coin bearing the image of Cleopatra suggests the Egyptian queen's beauty may have been overstated. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/30 "2007-04-13T20:09:41Z")
As has been asserted, the assumption underlying the OP is inherently faulty. There is zero evidence that people were uniformly homely before the present time. Further, the OP’s question is ambiguous. Are we talking someone who, if they had the advantages of modern cosmetics and air-brushed photography would look just as hot as, say, Halle Berry? Or are we talking someone who, even with the difficulties inherent in trying to look your best without modern cosmetics and photographic lying, er, that is retouching, would still be hot as Halle Berry? When an OP is inherently flawed, the typical response on this Board is to flog it unmercifully. Here, that flogging has, at least, been done humorously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/31 "2007-04-13T20:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Probably this [hottie.](http://donsmaps.com/images8/venus0187.jpg) [/QUOTE] This is the canonical one: > **[Venus of Willendorf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_willendorf)** > > The Venus of Willendorf is an 11.1-centimetre-tall (4.4 in) Venus figurine estimated to have been made c. 30,000 years ago. It was recovered on 7 August 1908 on an archaeological dig conducted by Josef Szombathy, Hugo Obermaier, and Josef Bayer at a Paleolithic site near Willendorf, a village in Lower Austria. The figurine was found by a workman named either Johann Veran or Josef Veram and is carved from an oolitic limestone that is not local to the area, and tinted with red och As with similar ... ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/32 "2007-04-13T20:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] As has been asserted, the assumption underlying the OP is inherently faulty. There is zero evidence that people were uniformly homely before the present time. Further, the OP’s question is ambiguous. Are we talking someone who, if they had the advantages of modern cosmetics and air-brushed photography would look just as hot as, say, Halle Berry? Or are we talking someone who, even with the difficulties inherent in trying to look your best without modern cosmetics and photographic lying, er, that is retouching, would still be hot as Halle Berry? When an OP is inherently flawed, the typical response on this Board is to flog it unmercifully. Here, that flogging has, at least, been done humorously. 😉 [/QUOTE] No, this reading of the OP is faulty. He says “BY TODAY’S STANDARDS.” Therefore, he’s asking about how far back you can go and still find a woman that would be considered “hot” by 2007’s sociocultural standards. Lucy was a fucking APE. Cleopatra was an ugly man. I’d venture the mid-1800’s; before that, the cultural standards of beauty favored things that aren’t considered beautiful by modern stanrdards, such as obestity. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/33 "2007-04-13T20:17:31Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Josephine, Napoleon’s empress, had her charms: [http://www.best-of-perigord.tm.fr/sites/musees/napoleon/josephine.jpg](http://www.best-of-perigord.tm.fr/sites/musees/napoleon/josephine.jpg) [/QUOTE] See that closed-mouth smile? That’s because her teeth were so bad that she never, ever smiled with her teeth showing. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/34 "2007-04-13T20:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] As has been asserted, the assumption underlying the OP is inherently faulty. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily, if the assumption is correct then the answer is Twiggy. ---
**Author:** ![\_kat\_herbrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e47774/32.png) [@\_kat\_herbrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_kat_herbrain)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/35 "2007-04-13T20:18:58Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Probably this [hottie.](http://donsmaps.com/images8/venus0187.jpg) [/QUOTE] Or [this one.](http://www.mrdowling.com/images/702cleopatra.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/36 "2007-04-13T20:22:03Z")
[QUOTE=❤kat&&herbrain​❤] Or [this one.](http://www.mrdowling.com/images/702cleopatra.jpg) [/QUOTE] Uh… I like yours better. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/37 "2007-04-13T20:24:53Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Emma Hamilton, Lord Nelson’s mistress, was easy on the eyes, too: [http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Emma-cameo.jpg](http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Emma-cameo.jpg) [/QUOTE] 'kin hell - that’s Elijah Wood. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/38 "2007-04-13T20:29:02Z")
The hell she is! Don’t you _dare_ spoil her for me. 😉 Here’s another view: [http://www.huntington.org/Education/eduPix/24.5.jpg](http://www.huntington.org/Education/eduPix/24.5.jpg) Or this: [http://www.vesuvius.tomgidwitz.com/assets/images/Emma-as-Baccahnte.jpg](http://www.vesuvius.tomgidwitz.com/assets/images/Emma-as-Baccahnte.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/39 "2007-04-13T20:34:37Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] This is the canonical one: > **[Venus of Willendorf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_willendorf)** > > The Venus of Willendorf is an 11.1-centimetre-tall (4.4 in) Venus figurine estimated to have been made c. 30,000 years ago. It was recovered on 7 August 1908 on an archaeological dig conducted by Josef Szombathy, Hugo Obermaier, and Josef Bayer at a Paleolithic site near Willendorf, a village in Lower Austria. The figurine was found by a workman named either Johann Veran or Josef Veram and is carved from an oolitic limestone that is not local to the area, and tinted with red och As with similar ... [/QUOTE] Willendorf! :smack: _That_ was her last name. I had consumed a lot of beer that night, so it’s all kinda fuzzy. But she was a wild one, I’ll tell you! **VCO3** - _What_ sociocultural standards? The 13 year old boys with plums in their shirts that seem to be modelling everything in Milan, or the Lane Bryant models in the catalog? Twiggy or Rosanne? I can find thousands of people who will gladly flog the weasel over either. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988/40 "2007-04-13T20:37:48Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] The hell she is! Don’t you _dare_ spoil her for me. 😉 [/QUOTE] That first link in your post should be in the dictionary under “coquette”. Wow! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-earliest-hottie/399988.md?page=3)