# Who was the first non-W.A.S.P. US president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853 "2012-09-26T03:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/21 "2012-09-26T13:45:27Z")
Are Quakers considered Protestants? Because I think Nixon was a Quaker. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/22 "2012-09-26T14:14:50Z")
The germanic tribles settled England as the Roman influence waned; primarily Angles and Saxons. (The French cut to the chase and call England “Angleterre”, while the Anglish themselves mispronounce the name). In Europe, Angle and Saxony were two distinct tribes with two somewhat distinct territories. So “anglo-saxon” means people from England, even though technically the Normans were the dominant class since 1066. By now they’ve blended into the anglo-saxon base. (Normans - norsemen - viking invaders who eventually settled in … wait for it… Normandy.) As the comment says from Wiki, the term is loosely used for norther european white people in general, but technically it means the central English base, not even including the Welsh (ancient Britons?), nor the celts of Ireland or Scotland. It’s like generically calling black people (negros) “Africans”, even though everyone knows there are also Egyptians, Bedouins, Arabs, and since the 1600’s white Afrikaans of dutch ancestry. If you have to be precise, you can be so precise the point is lost in the massive collection of clarifications. Yes, presidents tended to be from the core WASP classes of original settlers, but since it is America, land of opportunity, Dutch, German, Irish and lately more varied others have managed to infiltrate the ruling class on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/23 "2012-09-26T14:45:55Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > …Obama does, in fact, have quite a bit of Anglo-Saxon ancestry and cultural heritage, and he is a Protestant… Quite so: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit\_n.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit_n.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/24 "2012-09-26T15:36:36Z")
Class, your assignment for this week is to read [The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America by E. Digby Baltzell](http://www.amazon.com/Protestant-Establishment-Aristocracy-Caste-America/dp/0300038186/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348673225&sr=1-2), published in 1964. > [@](#): > > This classic account of the traditional upper class in America traces its origins, lifestyles, and political and social attitudes from the time of Theodore Roosevelt to that of John F. Kennedy. Sociologist E. Digby Baltzell describes the problems of exclusion and prejudice within the community of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants (or WASPs, an acronym he coined) and predicts with amazing accuracy what will happen when this inbred group is forced to share privilege and power with talented members of minority groups. “The book may actually hold more interest today than when it was first published. New generations of readers can resonate all the more to this masterly and beautifully written work that provides sociological understanding of its engrossing subject.”-Robert K. Merton, Columbia University “The documentation and illustration in the book make it valuable as social history, quite apart from any theoretical hypothesis. As such, it sketches the rise of the WASP penchant for country clubs, patriotic societies and genealogy. It traces the history of anti-Semitism in America. It describes the intellectual conflict between Social Darwinism and the environmental social science founded half a century ago by men like John Dewey, Charles A. Beard, Thorstein Veblen, Franz Boas and Frederick Jackson Turner. In short, The Protestant Establishment is a wide-ranging, intelligent and provocative book.”-Alvin Toffler, New York Times Book Review “The Protestant Establishment has many virtues that lift it above the level we have come to expect in works of contemporary social and cultural analysis. It is clearly and convincingly written.”-H. Stuart Hughes, New York Review of Books He did not coin the term: he popularized it. Even so, when 60s people talked about the Establishment this is what they were talking about. WASPs and the Establishment are not identical, but they overlapped so greatly pre-60s that there wasn’t much room for difference. The Dutch always maintained a special elitism in New York social circles because they had been there first. But if you say that the Roosevelts weren’t WASPs and part of the Protestant Establishment then you’re using the term differently from everybody else. That goes for the Scots-Irish as well. (It took me a long time to figure out that Scots-Irish didn’t mean geography: it was code for Protestant.) For extra credit: are Southern Baptists really WASPs? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/25 "2012-09-26T15:53:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by \*\*Dr. Drake \*\* > …Obama does, in fact, have quite a bit of Anglo-Saxon ancestry and cultural heritage, and he is a Protestant… > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Quite so: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit\_n.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit_n.htm) Yes, I’ve always though - how much more American-white do you want you black president to be? He was raised by his white mother and grandmother, over 2,000 miles from the nearest black ghetto, in an academic environment of university life, with virtually no contact with his (black) father who wasn’t from the US ghettos either. he had almost no interaction with the black community in America until after he graduated from an elite US college. His tone is very WASP, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/26 "2012-09-26T16:01:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Quite so: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit\_n.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-23-Obama-Ireland-visit_n.htm) Not only Ireland. President Obama and I are cousins (along with several million other people; we all try not to presume). Our common ancestors are Burr Harrison, b. 1637 in London and d. 1706 in Virginia, and his wife Sarah Burdette. Definitely WASPs, by all of the definitions given in the thread so far. —and I’m not a WASP either. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/27 "2012-09-26T16:09:33Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Not only Ireland. President Obama and I are cousins (along with several million other people; we all try not to presume). Our common ancestors are Burr Harrison, b. 1637 in London and d. 1706 in Virginia, and his wife Sarah Burdette. Definitely WASPs, by all of the definitions given in the thread so far. > > —and I’m not a WASP either. If you happen to speak to cousin Barack on your next family gathering, tell him to email me. I’ve done some thinking on the weekend and came up with a good peace plan for the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/28 "2012-09-26T16:22:42Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Obama does, in fact, have quite a bit of Anglo-Saxon ancestry and cultural heritage, and he is a Protestant. Of the four major party candidates (Obama, Biden, Romney and Ryan), Obama is the only Protestant (assuming that you don’t consider Mormons to be Protestant). ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/29 "2012-09-26T17:14:54Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The Dutch are not Danish, and the Danish are not Dutch. > > Obama does, in fact, have quite a bit of Anglo-Saxon ancestry and cultural heritage, and he is a Protestant. > > I think the Scots might argue with you here, especially the (relatively few but real) Gaelic-speaking Catholics in the Hebrides. WASP is traditionally used for any Protestant whose ancestry is from Europe, which includes Scandinavians, Celts, the Germanic peoples, and Huguenot French. The “Anglo-Saxon” refers to the linguistic and cultural heritage once in America, not one’s family tree. So in that sense the answer to the OP is “Kennedy”. > > It’s sometimes used in a broader sense )kind of stupidly) to mean “White”. In that sense the answer is “Obama.” > > It’s never used to mean ONLY people who are physically descended from the Angles and Saxons who came to England and no one else. Agree with all this. Beat me to the point about Obama. Ancestrally and culturally, he’s one of our WASPier Presidents. He was raised entirely by his northern European Protestant maternal relatives, is descended from colonial stock, including Mayflower passengers. He never spent any time in the hood til he was, as we say, a grown ass man. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/30 "2012-09-26T18:47:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Are Quakers considered Protestants? Because I think Nixon was a Quaker. And Fillmore and Taft were Unitarian. Whether THAT counts as Protestant is also up for grabs. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/31 "2012-09-26T19:35:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You didn’t ask about Vice Presidents, but Biden is the only non-Protestant VP and there haven’t been any non-white VP’s. Not true. There was a rumor that Hannibal Hamlin (Lincoln’s first VP) was partially non-white but it was never definatively proven. Charles Curtis (Hoover’s VP) was 3/8 Native-American. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/32 "2012-09-26T19:48:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > For extra credit: are Southern Baptists really WASPs? No, they are WACKYASSs White Accented Cousin-Kissing Yokels Against Same-sex Sex ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/33 "2012-09-26T20:33:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No, they are WACKYASSs > > White Accented Cousin-Kissing Yokels Against Same-sex Sex [Moderator Warning] **Saint Cad** , religious jabs are not permitted in GQ. Since you’ve had similar offenses before, I’m making this a warning instead of a note. Do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/34 "2012-09-26T20:53:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderator Warning] > > **Saint Cad** , religious jabs are not permitted in GQ. Since you’ve had similar offenses before, I’m making this a warning instead of a note. Do not do this again. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator My apologies. I zoned and thought I was in a different forum. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/35 "2012-09-26T21:10:56Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Then of course there was Jefferson. Very much of an Anglo-Saxon, but a deist and I doubt that would make him a Protestant. Right. Many early presidents are considered to have either Deism or Unitarianism as a faith. > **[Religious affiliations of presidents of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > > Religious affiliations can affect the electability of the presidents of the United States and shape their stances on policy matters and their visions of society and also how they want to lead it. While no president so far has ever openly identified as an atheist, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and William Howard Taft were speculated to be atheists by their opponents during political campaigns; in addition, a survey during the first presidency of Do... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/36 "2012-09-26T21:21:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Not true. There was a rumor that Hannibal Hamlin (Lincoln’s first VP) was partially non-white but it was never definatively proven. Charles Curtis (Hoover’s VP) was 3/8 Native-American. I think the rumors about Hamlin’s ancestry are as spurious as the similar rumors about Harding. But you’re right about Curtis. I forgot about him. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/37 "2012-09-26T23:30:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You didn’t ask about Vice Presidents, but Biden is the only non-Protestant VP and there haven’t been any non-white VP’s. How could you have forgotten about **Charles Curtis** , vice-president under Herbert Hoover? From the Wiki article: > [@](#): > > He was the first person with significant acknowledged Native American ancestry and the first person with significant acknowledged non-European ancestry to reach either of the two highest offices in the United States government’s executive branch. [Rest of Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Curtis) Course judging by the accompanying pics, he looks pretty white-bread to me. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/38 "2012-09-26T23:42:21Z")
^ Yes, Curtis was one of three people of native American descent mentioned in the Book of Knowledge who were famous in the past century. The other two were Maria Tallchief and Jim Thorpe. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/39 "2012-09-27T00:26:50Z")
Quick: who was the first president who was actually born Amercan, even? Everybody before was in violation of the Constitution (to be amended). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853/40 "2012-09-27T00:45:48Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > How could you have forgotten about **Charles Curtis** , vice-president under Herbert Hoover? Seriously? How much time do you think the average person spends thinking about Charles Curtis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-non-w-a-s-p-us-president/635853.md?page=3)