# Who was the first real person in the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736 "2007-12-20T18:37:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/21 "2007-12-21T01:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Omri, King of Israel (the Northern Kingdom), is the first figure chronologically to be mentioned _with certainty of identity_ in non Biblical sources. There are a lot of references to ‘Son of David’ (i.e., heir in line, not the strict meaning of ‘son’) and ‘House of David’ but only a questionable probably-contemporary instriction about him as a person.. [/QUOTE] That’d be my answer too. If we said “David” we wouldn’t be streching the facts too much. ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/22 "2007-12-21T02:56:18Z")
Moses? ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/23 "2007-12-21T03:18:53Z")
[QUOTE=bonitahi] Moses? [/QUOTE] Can’t find it now, but there was an earlier thread about the historical validity of Exodus and the answer seemed to be that there isn’t any independent evidence for any of it, including the existance of Moses. ---
**Author:** ![petew83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@petew83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/petew83)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/24 "2007-12-21T04:44:50Z")
What about Noah? Didn’t they find his ark? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/25 "2007-12-21T23:05:50Z")
[QUOTE=petew83] What about Noah? Didn’t they find his ark? [/QUOTE] Oh yeah, and fossils of the two unicorns that didn’t make it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/26 "2007-12-21T23:09:03Z")
[QUOTE=petew83] What about Noah? Didn’t they find his ark? [/QUOTE] Yes, but the government hid it in a warehouse. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/27 "2007-12-21T23:19:53Z")
I guess I was wondering who the first person mentioned in the Bible who definitely wasn’t allegorical. In other words, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, etc. were allegories, even though the ancients (and some not so ancients) thought they were real. Who may have been the first person mentioned who was, or at least based on, a real person? Let’s leave out Mitochondrial Eve for now. Thanks for your help, Rob ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/28 "2007-12-21T23:26:43Z")
[QUOTE=sweeteviljesus] I guess I was wondering who the first person mentioned in the Bible who definitely wasn’t allegorical. In other words, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, etc. were allegories, even though the ancients (and some not so ancients) thought they were real. Who may have been the first person mentioned who was, or at least based on, a real person? Let’s leave out Mitochondrial Eve for now. [/QUOTE] Pharoah Shishonk I of Egypt. 1 Kings 11:40 says: > [@](#): > > Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon. This was probably Shishonk I. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/29 "2007-12-22T17:30:16Z")
[QUOTE=petew83] What about Noah? Didn’t they find his ark? [/QUOTE] Well, guy, who is this “they” you are talking about?! Seems to me that more than one person has lately made an active search for your ark and found precisely… [**OUCH!**](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/frank_zindler/morris-zindler.html) Oh, and OUCH = _nothing!_ * * * Please read the second footnote at the bottom and ask yourself why Morris-substitute Morris would dodge the moderator’s opening question to him and would like very much to dodge all such questions. (This, BTW, is another example of a father sending out his son! 😃 ) * * * (Just li’l ol’ me–“Whatsisname”) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/30 "2007-12-22T17:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=gatorman] Technically speaking, Adam and Eve were absolutely real, the are the first 2 Homo Sapiens to ever exist and their offspring, everyone of us, are proof of their existence. [/QUOTE] Technically speaking, speciation doesn’t work like that. ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/31 "2007-12-22T19:56:01Z")
Archaeologist Michael Jursa discovered a tablet (dated 575 B.C.) noting a gold donation made by the “cheif eunuch” to a temple during Nebuchadnezzar’s II’s reign. (Book of Jeremiah) [Here is the link to the article in Archaeology magazine.](http://www.archaeology.org/0801/topten/cuneiform.html) Jursa notes that the find is interesting because “it is so incredibly rare to find people appearing in the Bible, who are not kings, mentioned elsewhere.” I know practically nothing about historical events in the Bible. I was taught largely with parable and allegory, so I know nothing about the significance or pertinence of this find- if **Dio** drops by maybe he can place this artifact historically. Sorry if this is unhelpful; I came across the article and thought it might be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/32 "2007-12-23T01:31:45Z")
[QUOTE=bonitahi] Moses? [/QUOTE] Unfortunately for Biblical literalists, Moses not only isn’t supported by outside verification, but the very account of him in the Bible is suspect. For starters, his name is strongly reminiscent of the Egyptian Tutmose, and the story about him being found in the rushes in a basket is lifted from the Egyptian myth of Horus. If there ever was an Egyptianized Hebrew who was somehow instrumental in the decision of the proto-Israelites to move away from Egypt and migrate west to the Jordan valley, the legend probably bears as much relationship to the facts as the story of King Arthur does to the history of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/33 "2007-12-23T14:19:03Z")
I always liked the poem by Lord Byron-“The Destruction of Sennacherib”? It relates the story of the destruction of the Assyrian army of King Sennacherib, who attempted to invade/destroy Judea, in the 4th cntury BC. Is there any independent verification of this? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/34 "2007-12-23T15:40:16Z")
The figures at the very end of the two kingdoms and thereafter, particularly the rulers in Mesopotamia, Persia, and Egypt, are mostly documentable historical figures. So yes, the later Assyrian emperors, the Chaldean (New Babylonian) emperors, and the Persian emperors (but not “Darius the Mede,” who is as historical as Prester John) are “real” historical figures. There’s no really good reason for presuming that the kings following Solomon are not much as represented in I and II Kings and II Chronicles, with the caveat that the Biblical naratives are judging their reign on a particular Yahwistic standard. But only a few of them are independently attested, Omri being the earliest of this crew. Beginning with David, as we move backward in Biblical chronology, the figures take on more and more legendary aspects. That is to say, we have vivid portraits of characters in the Bible, but to what extent those portraits reflect the historical reality of the figures involved is highly debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/35 "2007-12-23T16:33:54Z")
Since the OP has restated the question, I think we’ve gotten sidetracked. The first non-allegorical character would have to be someone who was around not too long before the story was written down. My WAG would be Joshua. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/36 "2007-12-23T20:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Unfortunately for Biblical literalists, Moses not only isn’t supported by outside verification, but the very account of him in the Bible is suspect. For starters, his name is strongly reminiscent of the Egyptian Tutmose, and the story about him being found in the rushes in a basket is lifted from the Egyptian myth of Horus. If there ever was an Egyptianized Hebrew who was somehow instrumental in the decision of the proto-Israelites to move away from Egypt and migrate **west** to the Jordan valley, the legend probably bears as much relationship to the facts as the story of King Arthur does to the history of Britain. [/QUOTE] :smack: EAST. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736/37 "2007-12-24T00:06:27Z")
In the KJV, the first real person mentioned is King James - the preface says: > [@](#): > > To the most high and mightie Prince, James by the grace of God > King of Great Britaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith , &c. Yes, I do realise that doesn’t count. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-real-person-in-the-bible/430736.md?page=1)