# Who Was The First To Suggest That Post-Religious Movements Look A Lot Like Religions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-to-suggest-that-post-religious-movements-look-a-lot-like-religions/410627 "2007-07-05T18:44:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-to-suggest-that-post-religious-movements-look-a-lot-like-religions/410627/1 "2007-07-05T18:44:02Z")
I had the misfortune (YMMV) to read the sententious, self-satisfied Rolling Stone issue on Teh Environment etc. (though I have long wondered about Roger Daltrey’s and Ludacris’s views on climate change). But that’s not what I’m here to talk about/slam, per se. Reading it, I thought, “Geez, the tone of many of these writers and the musicians they’re interviewing is not so very different to that of a fairly intolerant born again proselytizer who insists there’s only one way to see things and implies that you’re stupid and hellbound if you don’t agree with his sectarian beliefs.” Again, YMMV. So I’m not thinking my reaction was especially insightful, as many others have pointed to Green-ism or other “progressive” (anti-smoking, etc.) movements as being (allegedly) “secular religions.” I remember Philip Dick saying that when organized religion goes away, the religious impulse – the need to have a Big Theory or a Big Cause to explain everything, and to justify the believer – remains fully intact. In his case, the Big Theory was that there’s an order and purpose to everything, but when you subtract God out, this order/purpose looks a lot less benign, and can become a big cosmological conspiracy theory of how your life is being controlled, and not necessarily by a benevolent god. But I doubt Dick was the first to identify the phenomenon of post-religion “religiosity” in social or political causes. Who **was** the first (or were the first) to notice (or allege) that beliefs or causes held dear by largely-secular modernites often come to look like (or allegedly look like) and be argued/urged in much the same way as the religious dogma of earlier days? This is actually something of a GQ as I’m just looking for the names of authors/analysts, but I suspect it may spur some disagreement as to the premises (even though I’m not looking for that), so put it here. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-to-suggest-that-post-religious-movements-look-a-lot-like-religions/410627/2 "2007-07-05T18:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] I had the misfortune (YMMV) to read the sententious, self-satisfied Rolling Stone issue on Teh Environment etc. (though I have long wondered about Roger Daltrey’s and Ludacris’s views on climate change). But that’s not what I’m here to talk about/slam, per se. Reading it, I thought, “Geez, the tone of many of these writers and the musicians they’re interviewing is not so very different to that of a fairly intolerant born again proselytizer who insists there’s only one way to see things and implies that you’re stupid and hellbound if you don’t agree with his sectarian beliefs.” Again, YMMV. So I’m not thinking my reaction was especially insightful, as many others have pointed to Green-ism or other “progressive” (anti-smoking, etc.) movements as being (allegedly) “secular religions.” I remember Philip Dick saying that when organized religion goes away, the religious impulse – the need to have a Big Theory or a Big Cause to explain everything, and to justify the believer – remains fully intact. In his case, the Big Theory was that there’s an order and purpose to everything, but when you subtract God out, this order/purpose looks a lot less benign, and can become a big cosmological conspiracy theory of how your life is being controlled, and not necessarily by a benevolent god. But I doubt Dick was the first to identify the phenomenon of post-religion “religiosity” in social or political causes. Who **was** the first (or were the first) to notice (or allege) that beliefs or causes held dear by largely-secular modernites often come to look like (or allegedly look like) and be argued/urged in much the same way as the religious dogma of earlier days? This is actually something of a GQ as I’m just looking for the names of authors/analysts, but I suspect it may spur some disagreement as to the premises (even though I’m not looking for that), so put it here. [/QUOTE] You may wish to check out Eric Hoffer’s _The True Believer_. Don’t know if it is the _first_, mind you, but it was certainly influential - and I think a good read. > **[The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements : Hoffer, Eric:...](https://www.amazon.ca/True-Believer-Thoughts-Nature-Movements/dp/0060505915)** > > The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements : Hoffer, Eric: Amazon.ca: Books ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-to-suggest-that-post-religious-movements-look-a-lot-like-religions/410627/3 "2007-07-05T20:16:04Z")
In fewer words, you’re merely asking when was the term “self-righteous” coined. I couldn’t find the answer, but apparently the phrase and concept is [much older](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/search/Search.aspx?By=0&SearchBy=4&Word=self-righteous) than modern times (and what does this have to do with race?). ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-to-suggest-that-post-religious-movements-look-a-lot-like-religions/410627/4 "2007-07-05T20:35:13Z")
[QUOTE=pizzabrat] In fewer words, you’re merely asking when was the term “self-righteous” coined. I couldn’t find the answer, but apparently the phrase and concept is [much older](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/search/Search.aspx?By=0&SearchBy=4&Word=self-righteous) than modern times (and what does this have to do with race?). [/QUOTE] Not exactly. I am assuming arguendo that all the religiously-based dogmas of prior days could have been (and sometimes were) characterized as “self-righteous.” My question is not whether the Puritans acted or were described as acting self-righteously – my question is when did observers first start noticing, or commenting on, “religious-like” traits (including but not limited to self-righteousness) in **ostensibly non-religious** advocates of some cause or belief.