# Who was the first (undisputed) human at the North Pole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443 "2004-07-16T16:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/1 "2004-07-16T16:37:29Z")
From [The Arctic Grail](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0771012667/ref=lpr_g_1/104-5095253-4683117?v=glance&s=books) I’ve learned it’s very unlikely that either Cook OR Peary (Or Henson, for that matter) ever really reached 90 degrees North latitude in 1908 or 1909, or at any other time. What I’ve tried to learn since reading that book is, who _was_ the first to reach it? The next visit I know about was the nuclear submarine _Nautilus_ which passed under the ice in 1958. But surely someone else got up there in the 49 years between Peary’s claim and _Nautilus?_ ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/2 "2004-07-16T17:08:49Z")
I don’t know the answer to the OP, but I was there via a nuclear submarine in 1993. I don’t remember seeing a visitor sign-up sheet, though–nor a pole, for that matter. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/3 "2004-07-16T17:11:32Z")
I believe that the current thinking is that Peary was indeed within five miles of the Pole, which was about as accurate as his instruments could tell him. Also, the Polar depth soundings he took support his contention. But to answer the OP, I believe it was a team of Russians (or Soviets) in the late 1940s who were credited with the first _undisputed_ attainment of the Pole. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/4 "2004-07-16T17:18:48Z")
Santa Claus doesn’t count? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/5 "2004-07-16T17:26:17Z")
The first crossing over the pole by air seems to have been in 1926, though whether by Richard Byrd and Floyd Bennett by plane or Umberto Nobile and Roald Amundsen by dirigible is disputed. The first crossing under water was by the _Nautilus_ in 1958. The first submarine to actually surface at the pole was the _Skate_ in 1959. The first verified overland arrival at the pole wasn’t until 1968. From [here](http://www.usask.ca/education/ideas/tplan/sslp/yukon/pole.htm) > [@](#): > > Controversy also exists over the third claim to reach the North Pole. This claim was made by Richard E. Byrd and Floyd Bennett who claimed to have flown over the Pole in 1926. However, some people doubt that the aircraft in which they flew had the capacity to make such a flight. There were rumors that Bennett made a brief flight from the base camp and turned around while Byrd drank booze, then claimed to be the first to fly to the Pole. We may never know the truth. > > Only three days after Byrd`s apparent flight over the North Pole, an Italian officer, Umberto Nobile designed and piloted an airship, the Norge, which floated over the Pole. The Inuit people below thought that they were seeing a giant whale floating in the sky. This expedition was led by the respected Norwegian explorer, Roald Amundsen. > > In 1958 the world`s first nuclear submarine, the American ship the Nautilus, pioneered a route across the top of the world between Alaska and Greenland, becoming the first submarine to pass underneath the North Pole. > > In 1959 another submarine, the Skate, became the first submarine to crack through the ice and surface at the Pole. In this case, which ship – the Nautilus or the Skate – should be credited to be the first submarine to reach the North Pole? Claims to fame do not always come without controversy, and decisions on who to credit cannot always be made in simple black-and-white terms. > > Northern pilot Don Braun piloted the first wheeled aircraft, A Bristol transport, which landed at the Pole in 1967. This aircraft now sits as a monument at the airport in Yellowknife, capital of the Northwest Territories. > > Other ways were devised to reach the North Pole. The first scientifically verified overland arrival at the Pole was made by four amateur explorers led by Ralph Plaisted in 1968. Using snowmobiles these men became the first to reach the Pole by motorized surface travel. This arrival at the Pole was verified through the use of a U.S. Air Force weather plane which recorded their trip. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/6 "2004-07-16T21:33:33Z")
> [@Earl Snake-Hips Tucker](#): > > I believe that the current thinking is that Peary was indeed within five miles of the Pole, How big of an area is it in which I can stand on it and say “The North Pole is under my feet”? A few square feet? A few square miles? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/7 "2004-07-16T23:46:25Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Santa Claus doesn’t count? DAMN YOU!! You beat me to the joke! :mad: :mad: 😛😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/8 "2004-07-17T00:29:12Z")
There are far too many discrepencies in Peary’s account- the data appears to be back-filled, he didn’t say anything about making it until he heard about Cook- and lastly\* it is completely impossible for him to have made that time.\* There is no doubt in my mind that he back-filled his diary after he found out about Cook. He didn’t even get with 5 miles- I doubt if he got within 50 miles. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/9 "2004-07-17T00:35:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The first submarine to actually surface at the pole was the _Skate_ in 1959. > ] I’m very surprised. I wouldn’t have thought it was possible to surface at the north pole. How thick is the ice there? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/10 "2004-07-17T00:55:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m very surprised. I wouldn’t have thought it was possible to surface at the north pole. How thick is the ice there? According to [this site](http://www.allthingsarctic.com/science/sea_ice.aspx) > [@](#): > > Polynyas are irregular openings in the pack ice caused by ocean currents and shifting wind flow patterns. > > It was through one of these that the submarine U.S.S. Skate surfaced (1959) close to the North Pole. So it would appear that the Skate did not break through the full thickness of the ice. It surfaced on March 17. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/11 "2004-07-17T03:09:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m very surprised. I wouldn’t have thought it was possible to surface at the north pole. How thick is the ice there? My sub also surfaced at the Pole. In general, in the Arctic, we only surfaced when the ice was less than 3 feet thick. Because of the general movement of the pack ice, much greater ice thicknesses are possible from a mechanism similar to plate tectonics. So-called “ice keels” can extend downward more than 100 feet, but most extend down less than this. “Ice ridges” can extend upward in similar fashion, but generally extend upward less than 20 feet. At the time we were in the Arctic (early spring), we never observed any open spots of water. Any open spots would quickly freeze over. We referred to any spots with only a few feet of ice as “polynyas” as well, as it was evident they arose from open spots of water. We were also very cognizant of keeping tracking of polynyas as we proceeded. Our emergency diesel generator was useless without access to the surface air. In the unlikely event that our nuclear reactor went down, then, we would have been screwed. (The battery would not suffice to move the sub very far.) For this reason, we secured all our typical drills that included temporary reactor shutdowns for training. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/12 "2004-07-17T03:26:25Z")
> [@](#): > > How big of an area is it in which I can stand on it and say “The North Pole is under my feet”? A few square feet? A few square miles? In my opinion the answer is, “Too the limit of the tools you are measuring your tools with.” In Perry’s day, and at that latitude, 5 miles isn’t all that bad. Not real good either. IIRC Admundson and Scott managed to “box the pole” inside triangles about 2 miles on a side. The two triangles overlapped over much of their area so it would seem likely they both got “close enough” to make a good claim on the pole. I do remember reading somewhere that one of Scott’s party actually walked within a few hundred feet of the pole. Today, with GPS, you’d better be damn close, none of this mile or two crap. **robby** Man talk about being part of a small group. I’m impressed, did you get some pictures? Did they let you out to look around? And in your own sub too, wow! It was my understanding that during the summer the pole was open water. Does anyone know if this if correct. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/13 "2004-07-17T03:31:15Z")
Wikipedia surprisingly says that Roald Amundsen, who is credited with leading the first expedition to the South Pole, might also be the first to visit the North Pole: “The first undisputed sight of the [North] pole was in 1926 by Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen and his American sponsor Lincoln Ellsworth from the airship Norge, designed and piloted by the Italian Umberto Nobile, in a flight from Svalbard to Alaska.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/14 "2004-07-17T03:33:07Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > It was my understanding that during the summer the pole was open water. Does anyone know if this if correct. [This article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/888235.stm) indicates that during the summer the North Pole is usually covered with about 9 feet of ice (presumably with the exception of polynyas). However, in 2000, the date of the article, a large area of open water a mile wide opened up there. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/15 "2004-07-17T03:40:11Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Wikipedia surprisingly says that Roald Amundsen, who is credited with leading the first expedition to the South Pole, might also be the first to visit the North Pole: “The first undisputed sight of the [North] pole was in 1926 by Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen and his American sponsor Lincoln Ellsworth from the airship Norge, designed and piloted by the Italian Umberto Nobile, in a flight from Svalbard to Alaska.” If true, this is particularly ironic because Amundsen originally had his sights on the North Pole. He only decided to go after the South Pole after Peary claimed to have been there first. Peary’s claim put off others from attempting to visit the North Pole merely to be second. The Pole itself isn’t of any real intrinsic scientific interest, so there was little incentive to go there other than to be “the first.” ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/16 "2004-07-18T03:25:31Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > **robby** > Man talk about being part of a small group. I’m impressed, did you get some pictures? Did they let you out to look around? And in your own sub too, wow! Yes, we got out, and I took lots of pictures. (I remember worrying about the camera freezing up.) And while I referred to it as “my sub,” that’s just familiarity talking. I mean the “U.S. Navy submarine to which I was assigned.” [sub](Or were you just being sarcastic?)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-first-undisputed-human-at-the-north-pole/255443/17 "2004-07-21T10:30:55Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > IIRC Admundson and Scott managed to “box the pole” inside triangles about 2 miles on a side. The two triangles overlapped over much of their area so it would seem likely they both got “close enough” to make a good claim on the pole. Also, when he reached the South Pole, Amundsen erected a tent with the Norwegian flag atop and some letters, including one to Scott, inside. Scott recorded finding the tent in his diary, and I don’t see how he could have known in advance what evidence Amundsen would leave behind. Since they came by quite different routes, that’s solid evidence they were both at the Pole. If either party had lied or exagerrated, or if one or both had been significantly off in their calculations, the tent would not have been where Scott and his men would find it.