# Who Was the Greatest President of All Time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593 "2014-06-25T07:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/181 "2014-07-11T14:29:39Z")
> [@Alex\_from\_CB](#): > > Originally Posted by Stringbean View Post > Trying to stack the Supreme Court because they kept striking down your Unconstitutional legislation is single greatest shame in our country’s history. > > I’ve only frequented this forum off and on for about 15, 18 years but I think this (by this Stringbean person) is perhaps the very dumbest statement I’ve ever read here. Well, I wouldn’t go _that_ far. > [@Chronos](#): > > I wouldn’t say that FDR’s court-packing scheme was a worse shame than slavery… but it was still awfully bad. If it had gone through, we wouldn’t today be talking about 15 justices as the new normal, because it wouldn’t have stopped at 15. Rather, every time the Presidency changed hands, the new President would pack the court with enough new justices to give his side a solid majority. The Court would effectively cease to exist as an independent branch of government, and just be absorbed into the executive branch, and we’d have two-thirds of the strings of government in the hands of one man. Only people who don’t understand what actually happened (or how our government works) say this. As has already been pointed out, FDR could not pack the court just by naming names. Congress has _specified_ how many justices sit on the court since 1789, and would have had to pass an amendment to the Judiciary Act for FDR to name more justices. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] If he did not want to be tortured, he should not have run for public office. I don’t know why we are talking about McCain, since he has never been POTUS. I’ll just say that Swiftboating is a dick thing to do no matter which side it is. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/182 "2014-07-11T14:53:45Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The expulsion of the Acadians from Nova Scotia certainly predates the Trail of Tears. But human history (“modern” or not) is full of horrors–and this isn’t the Rate The Atrocity thread. Definitely, Andrew Jackson is _not_ on my list of Greatest Presidents. Or Decent Human Beings. It wasn’t about rating them, there was a claim the “Trail of Tears” was basically the first of its kind (since that is implied with the term “invent”), and that just isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/183 "2014-07-12T19:15:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ll acknowledge that Iraq is an exception. You should have stuck with your original statement that “I have never seen any real daylight between the Democrats and Republicans on foreign policy and the propensity to go to war.” Bill Clinton ordered bombing of Iraqi military facilities every few weeks, putting him in a position where there was pressure to take more definitive action. Alistair Cooke plausibly argued that if it wasn’t for the Lewinsky affair, Clinton would have been the President who ordered troops into Iraq. Also, do you recall that one of the reasons [Gore argued against the 2003 invasion was that Bush wouldn’t stay there long enough](http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gore/gore092302sp.html): > [@](#): > > Moreover, if we quickly succeed in a war against the weakened and depleted fourth rate military of Iraq and then quickly abandon that nation as President Bush has abandoned Afghanistan after quickly defeating a fifth rate military there, the resulting chaos could easily pose a far greater danger to the United States than we presently face from Saddam. We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country. After 9/11, the pressure on the US president, any US president, to show resolve was overwhelming. That’s an example of why you were right the first time: “I have never seen any real daylight between the Democrats and Republicans on foreign policy and the propensity to go to war.” The out of office party will criticize the timing of invasions and withdrawals, but don’t mistake that for an actual likelihood of acting differently if in power. This web page summarizes the causes of wars: [http://www.mega.nu/ampp/rummel/wpp.chap16.htm](http://www.mega.nu/ampp/rummel/wpp.chap16.htm) You’ll notice that whether the US President is a Republican or Democrat is not on the list. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/184 "2014-07-12T23:52:31Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > According to [FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/) he did not lose 5 planes, the starting of the Forrestal fire had nothing to do with McCain, and you managed to throw in a pot shot at a POW who suffered a fair amount of torture. According to their own quote: > [@](#): > > We have had numerous questions about this widely circulated claim. Some say McCain “lost” five planes, others that he “crashed” five planes. All offer this alleged “fact” as evidence that he was a bad pilot. All are incorrect. > > McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be be McCain’s fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause… A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain’s or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi. > > A fifth alleged “crash” turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through “daredevil clowning” but returned safely. That is five. They were his. McCain was a truly shitty pilot, reckless by his own admission. He was never cleared of the Forrestal disaster, and never charged due to his daddy being the admiral. All a big cover up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/185 "2014-07-12T23:55:42Z")
He doesn’t need to be cleared. The missile didn’t come from his plane. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/186 "2014-07-13T00:15:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He doesn’t need to be cleared. The missile didn’t come from his plane. And he wasn’t in the cockpit of his plane at the time. How do you know he wasn’t busy annoying the ground crew working on the plane that the missile did come from? Or in the cockpit of it. Hmmm? This swiftboating thing is really weird the way it comes back to bite you in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/187 "2014-07-13T04:40:19Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > According to their own quote: > That is five. They were his. > > McCain was a truly shitty pilot, reckless by his own admission. He was never cleared of the Forrestal disaster, and never charged due to his daddy being the admiral. All a big cover up. We’re trying to fight ignorance, not add to it. You don’t land airplanes on a carrier if you are a shitty pilot. Take your conspiracy theories to the nitwits who believe Obama was born in Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/188 "2014-07-13T04:51:20Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > We’re trying to fight ignorance, not add to it. You don’t land airplanes on a carrier if you are a shitty pilot. Take your conspiracy theories to the nitwits who believe Obama was born in Kenya. So you are saying that McCain was not a poor pilot? Can you name any Navy pilot who was still allowed to fly after losing two planes who was not the son of an admiral? How about one? You have a very naive view of the world. If your father is a big shot, you get to fly jets in the US military if you want to. Bush II, shitty pilot, but not as bad as McCain. What they had in common was being part of the elite. The difference between McCain and Obama is that Obama was not born in Kenya, while McCain lost four planes and had a landing so bad in a fifth that it’s systems thought it was a crash. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/189 "2014-07-13T22:10:51Z")
Perhaps I’m naive, but I believe you fall for CTs if they skewer someone you don’t like. I’ll repeat: you don’t land planes on an aircraft carrier if you are a shitty pilot. It’s like saying shitty spellers make it to the spelling bee finals. You have yet to say something 100% factual about McCain. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/190 "2014-07-14T16:05:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I am unable to choose between Washington, Lincoln, and FDR. Each was indispensible at his point in history. Without Washington, the nation may never have taken root. Without Lincoln, it splits in its first century. Without FDR, perhaps a descent into fascism. I think almost exactly along the same lines. My only difference is that if push comes to shove, I would drop FDR to third and sit unable to choose between Washington and Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/191 "2014-07-14T17:08:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > So you are saying that McCain was not a poor pilot? Can you name any Navy pilot who was still allowed to fly after losing two planes who was not the son of an admiral? How about one? You have a very naive view of the world. If your father is a big shot, you get to fly jets in the US military if you want to. Bush II, shitty pilot, but not as bad as McCain. What they had in common was being part of the elite. > > The difference between McCain and Obama is that Obama was not born in Kenya, while McCain lost four planes and had a landing so bad in a fifth that it’s systems thought it was a crash. Perhaps I should have held off for a few posts. At least **Stringbean** was talking about an actual president. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is one of the ten dumbest statements ever posted on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/192 "2014-07-14T17:15:12Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > McCain was a truly shitty pilot, reckless by his own admission. He was never cleared of the Forrestal disaster Forrestal? What part was he at fault for? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/193 "2014-07-14T17:15:12Z")
McCain might have been a “shitty” pilot, but “shitty” is relative. Maybe he was a C- or even D pilot, as far as carrier pilots go… but compared to all pilots in the world, or even all military pilots in the US, he still might have been a B+ or A- pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/194 "2014-07-14T17:16:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Forrestal? What part was he at fault for? I don’t get it. Being a Republican. -RNATB, bleeding heart liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/195 "2014-07-15T01:15:47Z")
FWIW regarding this idiotic McCain hijack, his [Wikipedia entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Naval_training.2C_first_marriage.2C_and_Vietnam_assignment) states: **McCain began as a sub-par flier who was at times careless and reckless; during the early to mid-1960s, the planes he was flying crashed twice and once collided with power lines, but he received no major injuries. His aviation skills improved over time, and he was seen as a good pilot, albeit one who tended to “push the envelope” in his flying.** ---
**Author:** ![karin2014](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8baadc/32.png) [@karin2014](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karin2014)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/196 "2014-07-15T06:12:26Z")
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**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/197 "2017-05-03T18:58:53Z")
I can’t pick one, but I would say the top five best Presidents of all time were Abraham Lincoln, FDR, Theodore Roosevelt, George Washington and Lyndon Johnson. Top 10 would be: 1. Lincoln 2. FDR 3. TR 4. Washington 5. LBJ 6. James K. Polk 7. Dwight D. Eisenhower 8. Harry Truman 9. JFK 10. Richard Nixon ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/198 "2017-05-03T19:39:33Z")
… was there another Richard Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/199 "2017-05-03T20:52:15Z")
Bringing American through the depression would make FDR one of the greatest presidents. Bringing the US through WW2 would make FDR one of the greatest presidents. Doing both IMHO puts him at the top. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/200 "2017-05-03T21:21:33Z")
I’ve waited a long time for this 🙂 but I’ve got to say, “The Presidents’ **brains** are missing!” (I’m guessing this zombie thread was resurrected by a now-disappeared spammer.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593.md?page=11)