# Who Was the Greatest President of All Time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593 "2014-06-25T07:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/201 "2017-05-04T17:42:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Bringing American through the depression would make FDR one of the greatest presidents. Bringing the US through WW2 would make FDR one of the greatest presidents. Doing both IMHO puts him at the top. There’s a growing school of thought that says FDRs consistent meddling with the economy did more harm than good, as is evidenced by other countries climbing out of the depression faster than the U.S. did. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/202 "2017-05-04T21:57:42Z")
1. Abraham Lincoln 2. FDR 3. George Washington 4. LBJ 5. Harry Truman 6. James K. Polk 7. Thomas Jefferson 8. Barack Obama 9. Ulysses S. Grant 10. Theodore Roosevelt ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/203 "2017-05-05T02:57:39Z")
Lincoln. I know it’s cliche, but I don’t care. For nearly 70 years the United States, presidents and congress alike, talked about slavery and what to do with this peculiar institution, but nobody ever actually had the balls to deal with it. The United States was, in many ways, two different countries and cultures precariously tied and balanced together as one ‘union’. Abraham Lincoln’s resolve and decisiveness, in the face of so much loss, gave America the backbone it lacked before 1865, and it permanently forged the country as a single union together after 1865. There is no president who compares to Lincoln, and frankly, nobody belongs in the same discussion, save maybe George Washington who established the model of what the office ought to look like. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/204 "2017-05-05T02:59:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > 1. Abraham Lincoln > 2. FDR > 3. George Washington > 4. LBJ > 5. Harry Truman > 6. James K. Polk > 7. Thomas Jefferson > 8. Barack Obama > 9. Ulysses S. Grant > 10. Theodore Roosevelt 1. Lincoln 2. George Washington 3. FDR 4. TR 5. Thomas Jefferson ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/205 "2017-05-05T04:57:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > 1. Abraham Lincoln > 2. FDR > 3. George Washington > 4. LBJ > 5. Harry Truman > 6. James K. Polk > 7. Thomas Jefferson > 8. Barack Obama > 9. Ulysses S. Grant > 10. Theodore Roosevelt Is that the Alt-Left List? How shockingly…not alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/206 "2017-05-05T05:03:04Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > There’s a growing school of thought that says FDRs consistent meddling with the economy did more harm than good, as is evidenced by other countries climbing out of the depression faster than the U.S. did. “Growing school of thought” my ass. More like a “growing school of thoughtlessness,” if anything. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/207 "2017-05-05T05:35:05Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is that the Alt-Left List? How shockingly…not alternative. and yet you propose no alternative. . .how shocking, , , mc ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/208 "2017-05-05T05:59:42Z")
Getting back to the OP (I realize four years late) I don’t think Nixon deserves as much credit for opening diplomatic relations with China as he is often given. The People’s Republic of China had been around for thirty years by the time the United States decided to acknowledge that reality. It’s not like America was a leader either: Britain, France, West Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Turkey, and Japan had all recognized the People’s Republic by 1979. The United States was one of the last major nations to do so. And the reason for that was domestic politics not sound foreign policy. There was a widespread anti-communist movement that went beyond reason and approached hysteria. And Nixon had been one of the major leaders in this movement. If Nixon was the man who opened the door with China, he was also one of the men who had kept it locked shut for decades. The same is true about Nixon’s detente policy with the Soviet Union, which tried to make our relations with that country less confrontational. Nixon’s foreign policy as President mostly consisted of untangling problems that he had had a big hand in creating before his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/209 "2017-05-05T06:09:06Z")
I have to give Lincoln the nod over Washington if you’re looking for our Greatest President. If you’re going for lifetime achievement, Washington would win. But a large share of Washington’s reputation is based on things he did before becoming President. His presidency was pretty quiet. Lincoln had to handle a lot more as President than Washington ever had to in that office. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/210 "2017-05-05T06:25:38Z")
There’s a lot to admire about Washington… but I just don’t see how one can give a slave owner the nod over the man who issued the Emancipation Proclamation. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/211 "2017-05-05T12:51:28Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > No love for Lyndon Johnson? I’ve always found him to be better than people give him credit for. Great when it came to getting legislation through Congress, he skillfully passed the key 1964 Civil Rights Act along with a few other social measures. He was also witty as hell, which gives him extra points in my book. It’s a shame that he messed up the Vietnam situation, but I’m sure all other presidents made similar mistakes at some point. > > Granted, I’m looking at this from across the Atlantic so I may well have missed something You missed a lot. No love for LBJ whatsoever. To me, it’s pretty much a time between Washington and Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/212 "2017-05-05T17:24:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Getting back to the OP (I realize four years late) I don’t think Nixon deserves as much credit for opening diplomatic relations with China as he is often given. The People’s Republic of China had been around for thirty years by the time the United States decided to acknowledge that reality. It’s not like America was a leader either: Britain, France, West Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Turkey, and Japan had all recognized the People’s Republic by 1979. The United States was one of the last major nations to do so. Mere recognition of the PRC isn’t really the key point here; what matters is Nixon’s move pivoted China away from the possibility of alliance with the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/213 "2017-05-05T22:05:45Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > and yet you propose no alternative. . .how shocking, , , > > mc I suggested William Henry Harrison earlier in the thread. Top Ten: 1. WHH 2. Washington 3. Harding 4. Jefferson 5. Tyler 6. Cleveland 7. Coolidge 8. Van Buren Can’t come up with any more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593/214 "2017-05-06T02:51:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Mere recognition of the PRC isn’t really the key point here; what matters is Nixon’s move pivoted China away from the possibility of alliance with the USSR. But that possibility had existed all along. The only reason the United States hadn’t explored it earlier was because of a refusal to consider a working alliance with any communist regime. If we had been a little more pragmatic, we could have encouraged nationalist interests over ideological solidarity in places like China, Vietnam, and Cuba and attempted to keep them neutral in our conflict with the Soviet Union. But we insisted on making communism as an ideology the enemy rather than specific communist nations like the Soviet Union. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-greatest-president-of-all-time/691593.md?page=10)