# Who was the last great U.S. president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072 "2011-08-01T17:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/21 "2011-08-02T11:30:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Nixon is the last President who achieved anything of note rather than reacted to events. Agreed, and before him Lyndon Johnson did much the same. However, neither can be regarded as a “great” president, because each was flawed. FDR is the last great president, not because of WW2, but because only he was capable of ignoring conventional economic doctrines and deal with the Great Depression. I wish Obama could learn from him. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/22 "2011-08-02T13:14:54Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > His personal calendar was set in consultation with an astrologer, and he regularly negotiated with terrorists and gave our enemies weapons so that death squads in Central America could pocket the proceeds, funding their assassination war against nuns and priests and others who spoke up for human rights. You’re forgetting that he mined the harbors in Nicaragua, which, according to Wikipedia, > [@](#): > > “The mines sank several Nicaraguan boats, damaged at least five foreign vessels, and brought an avalanche of international condemnation down on the United States. But from the administration’s point of view, the mines did their worst damage on Capitol Hill [the ratifying of the Boland Amendment].” The purpose of the mining was not to destroy military targets that threatened the United States, but to scare the public and destabilize the government by making it appear helpless to stop the explosions. That’s _terrorism_, by any (including Reagan’s own) definition. Reagan also memorably was fine with the French government’s sinking of the _Rainbow Warrior_, another act of governmental terrorism that killed a Portuguese-Dutch citizen and estranged a traditional US ally, New Zealand. The US would later sign a [treaty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Test_Ban_Treaty) outlawing exactly the sort of nuclear tests the _Rainbow Warrior_ was protesting, so obviously the test ban and the protest were in the national interest. Apparently Reagan just didn’t like environmentalists, and despite his well-known public stance against terrorists, was happy to see someone killed in a terror bombing as long as it hurt environmentalists. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And this is who I think were the truly great US Presidents: > > … > Thomas Jefferson > … While I like Jefferson for the Declaration and the Louisiana Purchase, he bears no little responsibility for the US Civil War, as he was one of the principals in sweeping the slavery issue under the rug during the founding and early years of the republic. I credit Joseph Ellis’ [_Founding Brothers_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Brothers:_The_Revolutionary_Generation) with particularly influencing my thinking on this point. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Obviously one can quibble about the definition of greatness ad infinitum, all political leaders have serious and grave failings, from President Obama back to Hammurabi…maybe individuals of semi-mythical status such as Cincinnatus are exceptions. > > Kennedy and Reagan both possessed the aura of greatness, they were inspiring and were proud to be Americans and made you proud to be an American. However at the detailed level I find both of them made grave errors and poor decisions, both had some corruption issues, and Kennedy can be reasonably accused of doing very little legislatively due to inability to negotiate adequately with Congress. Well said so far. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > FDR was little more than a demagogue who would be objectively considered to be a monster had WWII not happened. Okay, THAT came out of right field. 😉 Are you ignoring the Depression and labor relations? I think it’s funny that conservatives so hate FDR’s reforms, which took the steam out of the far left’s more grandiose ambitions by mainstreaming a middle-left agenda through conventional political means, and possibly (even likely) prevented a more extreme national left turn. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > From what I can tell Theodore Roosevelt was the last truly great President. He had that aura of greatness and he was almost non-partisan, choosing to do what was right regardless of the political ramifications. TR would have disagreed harshly with Reagan on the environment, trust-busting, and terrorism. They would have found common ground only in Reagan’s “600-ship Navy” plan. > [@AK84](#): > > Nixon is the last President who achieved anything of note rather than reacted to events. You mean like reacting to the war someone else started, or to the rise of China someone else started? . ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/23 "2011-08-02T14:24:55Z")
I’m constantly amazed at how Reagans reputation has been revitalized following his death. But on review of his actual accomplishments, I can’t see any which fit the bill for greatness (I don’t believe that he ended the cold war, or brought down the Soviet Union - Communism seemed to take care of that all on its own). I’m glad people have mentioned Nixon. Perhaps he wasn’t great - but he surely is one of the most under-rated Presidents of all time. He certainly deserves consideration. JFK died early - which solidified his reputation. But on actual accomplishments, I can’t see much to list him as great (the missile crisis turned out well - but I’m not sure that it was due to JFK’s actions, or in spite of them). I do give him mad props for the space program though. Having said all that - I have to go with FDR. Primarily because of his role in getting us into the war. Sure, Pearl Harbor was the spark. But he had been working very hard against a strong isolationist sentiment for years to prepare us for the inevitable, and I think the entire world is better off for it. I can’t think of a better definition of great. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/24 "2011-08-02T15:32:12Z")
Clinton. I’d let him keep hookers in the Lincoln bedroom to have that economy again. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/25 "2011-08-02T15:49:06Z")
The right’s sainting of Reagan will always astound me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/26 "2011-08-02T15:57:17Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > I’m constantly amazed at how Reagans reputation has been revitalized following his death. It hasn’t been revitalized - he was re-elected by a large majority because people tend to believe what they see and experience rather than what the Democratic party tells them to see (except in places like the SDMB). That continues today. The surprising thing is that his reputation survives despite the poor-mouthing of those resentful of having their candidate lose to him. The answer to the poll is Reagan. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/27 "2011-08-02T16:05:45Z")
I feel FDR was the last great President among those listed. But I’d also rank Truman and Eisenhower as greats, so I voted Other. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/28 "2011-08-02T16:06:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It hasn’t been revitalized - he was re-elected by a large majority because people tend to believe what they see and experience rather than what the Democratic party tells them to see (except in places like the SDMB). That continues today. > > The surprising thing is that his reputation survives despite the poor-mouthing of those resentful of having their candidate lose to him. > > The answer to the poll is Reagan. > > Regards, > Shodan Huh - that’s interesting. Because at the time, he wasn’t seen as any more [popular](http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html) than pretty much any other President. And in fact, 8 other Presidents since FDR have had higher approval ratings at some point in their presidency than Reagan at his highest. I guess people really do believe what they see and experience. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/29 "2011-08-02T16:15:55Z")
Kennedy and Reagan are on the list but not Lyndon Johnson or Truman or Clinton? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/30 "2011-08-02T16:33:36Z")
Most recent Great President? I’m torn between Johnson and Nixon, despite their flaws we stll live with the benefits of their positive actions. I’m leaning towards Johnson. I think it’s too soon to judge anyone more recent. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/31 "2011-08-02T16:37:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It hasn’t been revitalized - he was re-elected by a large majority because people tend to believe what they see and experience rather than what the Democratic party tells them to see (except in places like the SDMB). That continues today. > > The surprising thing is that his reputation survives despite the poor-mouthing of those resentful of having their candidate lose to him. I don’t deny that many people spoke ill of him – or that many people reported truths he’d prefer not be reported, which you might be inclined to regard in the same light. But you’re fantasizing if you’re implying Democrats have downplayed his legacy while Republicans have somehow virtuously refrained from inflating it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/32 "2011-08-02T16:47:39Z")
LBJ. Even if all he accomplished had been passage of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/33 "2011-08-02T17:00:12Z")
I’d call Johnson and Nixon _might-have-been_-greats, who were prevented from being truly great by their tragic flaws. Kennedy and Reagan had the charisma, and the _image_ of greatness, but when you look at the substance, the actual accomplishments, I don’t think you can call either of them “great” (though in Kennedy’s case, who knows what might have happened if he had lived). Eisenhower may well be underrated as a President, nowadays. And he may well be our most recent President who was widely and nonpartisanly respected and looked up to throughout America and the world (although maybe Kennedy counts there). But one criterion of a truly great president is one who rises to the occasion when the country is in difficulty, and there wasn’t as much of an occasion for Eisenhower to rise to as there was for some of the other names mentioned. As for my answer, I’m torn between FDR and Harry Truman. Truman doesn’t have the “larger than life” quality of Roosevelt, but I think he did rise to the occasion and serve well, whether or not he quite rose to the level of greatness. The [Wikipedia page on “historical rankings of U. S. Presidents”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States) provides interesting background reading for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/34 "2011-08-02T17:45:17Z")
I agree that LBJ and Nixon did some great things but didn’t achieve greatness because of equally large flaws. Reagan, in my opinion, is the Republican Kennedy. They had so much charisma, their fans credit them with more than they ever actually did. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/35 "2011-08-02T19:16:17Z")
At the time the Ponzi schemes they started are imploding, Johnson and FDR? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/36 "2011-08-02T19:24:01Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > At the time the Ponzi schemes they started are imploding, Johnson and FDR? Is saving people from poverty a Ponzi scheme? How would you provide for people’s retirement and health in old age? Let the market kill off the least fit? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/37 "2011-08-02T19:42:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree that LBJ…did some great things but didn’t achieve greatness because of equally large flaws. There’s a humorous book about the politics of the Sixties titled “The Begatting of a President,” written in pseudo-Biblical style. Its chapter about LBJ, “LBJenesis,” tells of how he created the Great Society in six days, then on the seventh day he threw a barbecue. > [@](#): > > Then LBJ said, “Shucks, let there be an eighth day.” > And on the eighth day, he escalated. It should be on his tombstone. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/38 "2011-08-02T20:32:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > There’s a humorous book about the politics of the Sixties titled “The Begatting of a President,” written in pseudo-Biblical style. That’s almost as funny as [this book I once owned.](http://www.amazon.com/Quotations-Chairman-LBJ-Lyndon-Johnson/dp/B0006BUHF6) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/39 "2011-08-02T21:53:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It hasn’t been revitalized - he was re-elected by a large majority because people tend to believe what they see and experience rather than what the Democratic party tells them to see (except in places like the SDMB). That continues today. > > The surprising thing is that his reputation survives despite the poor-mouthing of those resentful of having their candidate lose to him. > > The answer to the poll is Reagan. > > Regards, > Shodan Reputation isn’t reality, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/40 "2011-08-02T22:21:35Z")
Neither is 90% of what the SDMB believes about Reagan, pal. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072.md?page=3)