# Who was the last great U.S. president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072 "2011-08-01T17:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/61 "2011-08-03T16:36:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I voted “Other” because I believe that Bill Clinton was at least on Kennedy’s level. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Clinton. I’d let him keep hookers in the Lincoln bedroom to have that economy again. > [@Balthisar](#): > > I reluctantly chose “other” as a stand-in for Bill Clinton. . Another Clintonesta. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/62 "2011-08-03T17:01:34Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Thanks- I wasn’t aware of that. Are his actions (Truman) considered on a scale in the USA such as Harding or Grant? I have heard of their corruption (whatever you wish to call it) but nothing about Truman. Pretty much the same situation. All three trusted their old “friends” too much when they got into the White House and their cronies used it as an opportunity to grab as much as they could. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/63 "2011-08-03T18:56:12Z")
As I said in the “Worst Presidents” thread, I think Clinton did a whole lot that’s easy to overlook because he made it look easy. So I voted for Clinton. Only great of my lifetime, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![JFfordeFan23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@JFfordeFan23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFfordeFan23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/64 "2011-08-04T14:49:46Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Thanks- I wasn’t aware of that. Are his actions (Truman) considered on a scale in the USA such as Harding or Grant? I have heard of their corruption (whatever you wish to call it) but nothing about Truman. Of course not, and I believe Mr. Moto is embroidering any possible Truman transgressions by suggesting that they should be placed in similar categories. ---
**Author:** ![JFfordeFan23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@JFfordeFan23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFfordeFan23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/65 "2011-08-04T14:56:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pretty much the same situation. All three trusted their old “friends” too much when they got into the White House and their cronies used it as an opportunity to grab as much as they could. That’s too simplistic of a view, and think that it’s irresponsible to casually imply that these situations were anything less than distant cousins in nature. Harding had cabinet members go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/66 "2011-08-04T15:35:29Z")
> [@JFfordeFan23](#): > > That’s too simplistic of a view, and think that it’s irresponsible to casually imply that these situations were anything less than distant cousins in nature. Harding had cabinet members go to jail. > [@](#): > > In 1951, among a variety of scandals plaguing Truman was a scandal in the Internal Revenue Service. In the year 1950, 166 IRS employees either resigned or were fired, and a number were facing indictments from the Department of Justice on a variety of tax-fixing and bribery charges, including the Asst. Attorney General in charge of the Tax Division. > > A Congressional subcommittee had uncovered serious misconduct in the Treasury Department, and there was a perception that the Department of Justice not only was delaying the investigation into the scandals, but also was inept when it came to prosecuting this corruption. > > The press and Congress clamored for appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate charges of corruption within the administration. > > President Truman ignored the demands and instead appointed his Attorney General, J. Howard McGrath, as the head of the “clean-up,” a move roundly condemned by the press and Congress. > > In order to head off the House Judiciary Committee’s announcement that it would undertake a public investigation of McGrath’s handling of the Justice Department, Truman agreed to appoint a special prosecutor. He appointed a New York Republican, Newbold Morris… > > To expedite his investigation, Special Prosecutor Morris prepared a lengthy questionnaire for all senior executive officers, starting with all Department of Justice employees whose salaries were over $10,000. The questionnaire, to be answered under oath, was intended to reveal whether the employee’s lifestyle was commensurate with his salary. > > On March 18, 1952, Morris sent 596 questionnaires to the Department of Justice for distribution to senior justice officials. Attorney General McGrath ordered them not to be distributed. Morris then announced he wanted unlimited access to all McGrath’s official and personal records. McGrath refused, and on April 3, 1952 fired Morris. Newbold Morris spent a total of 63 days as Special Prosecutor, which is the shortest appointment of any special prosecutor. > > Later that day, Truman fired McGrath. Shortly thereafter, Truman announced Judge James P. McGranery as his new Attorney General. Judge McGranery announced that the investigation of the Justice Department would be conducted through regular channels. The net result of that investigation was that one Justice Department official was removed for unethical conduct, whereupon Judge McGranery publicly declared that his investigation was complete and that all the wrongdoers had received their due. [From here.](http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/oic/SMALTZ/speeches/gonzag.htm) Now, this goes past merely involving hangers-on. President Truman made decisions about how the investigations concerning the IRS scandal would be handled, and did so in a way calculated to insulate his office and the federal bureaucracy from outside scrutiny - particularly Congress and the press. Like I said, Truman was a legitimately great president. Recognizing this should not lead us to minimize his glaring mistakes and personal flaws. ---
**Author:** ![JFfordeFan23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@JFfordeFan23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFfordeFan23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/67 "2011-08-04T16:12:08Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, this goes past merely involving hangers-on. President Truman made decisions about how the investigations concerning the IRS scandal would be handled, and did so in a way calculated to insulate his office and the federal bureaucracy from outside scrutiny - particularly Congress and the press. > > Like I said, Truman was a legitimately great president. Recognizing this should not lead us to minimize his glaring mistakes and personal flaws. This is the “mountain out of a molehill” cliche put to good use. To equate an act of “insulation” to a scandal as opprobrious as the Teapot Dome affair, is, to reiterate, irresponsible. What Harding allowed to happen under his administration: bribery, imprisonment of important cabinent members, et al. resides on a star of shame, which Truman’s “mistakes” could never reach. Comparing the two is a fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/68 "2011-08-04T17:49:28Z")
The problem here is that I am not arguing that Harding is a great president. And even if we accept that there were corruption problems in the Harding administration, his personal involvement in them isn’t very clear. Much clearer are Truman’s fingerprints all over the case I linked above - he was criticized for leaving McGrath in charge of investigating his own department and appointed Morris. Morris had no subpoena power and could not compel information from the Justice Department employees. When he tried to press the matter he was fired, and this led to the firing of McGrath and the appointment of McGranery. This investigation amazingly enough made some headway, though it did not fully resolve questions of Truman’s attitude toward corruption at the time. Predictably, corruption was a major campaign issue in 1952 and this indisputably helped Eisenhower even though there were corruption issues against his ticket as well (see Nixon, Checkers speech.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/69 "2011-08-05T00:40:42Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Agreed, and before him Lyndon Johnson did much the same. However, neither can be regarded as a “great” president, because each was flawed. ] I’m not arguing specifically for Nixon or LBJ - well, I will for one in a moment - but first, I have to object to the implication there that greatness necessarily means a lack of flaws. Greatness can be achieved with flaws. All great men have had flaws; greatness overcomes flaws. In any case, I will surprise a lot of people and say I think Nixon was a great President. Yes, he was corrupt; he was forced to resign the office, and he deserved to be forced to resign the office. However, I think Nixon’s successful detente with China is, without question, the greatest foreign affairs and national security achievement in American history during my lifetime, and it’s really quite possible that it prevented World War III. Despite all the chest-thumping and sabre-ratting that followed, the fact is that the Cold War really started to thaw during Nixon’s administration, and because of Nixon’s policies. Making World War III not happen is greatness, IMHO. I’d otherwise pick a list of usual suspects; Washington, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR. Washington I think is somewhat underrated in a weird way. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/70 "2011-08-05T15:40:52Z")
It astounds me that as of the time of this post, 79 people think FDR was a great president. He may have been the prez in WW2, but he did almost as much damage to this country as Wilson did. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/71 "2011-08-06T12:22:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It astounds me that as of the time of this post, 79 people think FDR was a great president. He may have been the prez in WW2, but he did almost as much damage to this country as Wilson did. But if you’re a standard-issue progressive Doper, the New Deal wasn’t damaging and we’re not still feeling its damaging effects today. Quite the contrary, they’d say, and so the large amount of votes. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/72 "2011-08-06T16:07:59Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Wait a minute… are you just talking about the “missile gap” thing? If so, you’ve grossly mischaracterized it (Kennedy made that claim _in spite of_ the information he had, not by benefit of it). Hersh charges that Kennedy had been secretly informed of plans for the Bay of Pigs invasion, and had then accused Eisenhower-Nixon of not being hawkish enough against Cuba, espousing such an insurgency during the campaign. Obviously, Nixon could not counter this in the most appropriate way, by divulging the secret plans. How much of Hersh’s book is valid, and how much conjectural or even fiction? I don’t know. I’ve asked that question myself, twice, at SDMB. Between responses to those questions, and my own Googling I’ve found much opposition to the book, but very VERY little in the way of substantive disproofs. (I doubt Dopers need me to remind that Hersh is a highly respected prize-winning liberal journalist, not a right-wing hack.) (BTW, I watched the Nixon-Kennedy debates on TV, but do not remember any mention of Cuba. 🆒 ) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/73 "2011-08-06T20:32:38Z")
I can’t believe there are more votes for Reagan than Kennedy. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![littlespeedysuperbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@littlespeedysuperbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/littlespeedysuperbike)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/74 "2011-08-06T21:42:48Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > But if you’re a standard-issue progressive Doper, the New Deal wasn’t damaging and we’re not still feeling its damaging effects today. Quite the contrary, they’d say, and so the large amount of votes. I’m not sure if I can give better evidence that the New Deal worked than to note what we were able to accomplish in World War II. We had a high level of industrial might ready to crank up maximum production for the full duration of the war, and no other country can say that. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/75 "2011-08-06T22:17:19Z")
Teddy Roosevelt. The most recent prez to get his face on Mt. Rushmore. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/76 "2011-08-06T22:29:48Z")
Kennedy’s nothing but a myth. Anyway, the correct answer is Richard Milhous Nixon. Aside from his abject paranoia, he ended the war in Vietnam, he opened up relations with China, and he took us off the gold standard (which, after a few years of pain, made this country stupendously rich). It’s really too bad he was such a tragic figure, because had Watergate not happened, who knows what else he might have accomplished. His last two years in office were essentially thrown away over a second-rate burglary that he never should have protected, done for the purposes of winning an election he could not have lost. Personally, I think his good works far outweighed his bad ones. I still think he was a great President, fatal flaws and all. He was light years better than Kennedy, who did bupkis but keep us out of a war that his previous actions nearly precipitated and deepen our involvement in Vietnam. One can only wonder what might have happened if Nixon hadn’t gone on television to debate Kennedy and gotten elected in 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/77 "2011-08-07T00:17:15Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > One can only wonder what might have happened if Nixon hadn’t gone on television to debate Kennedy and gotten elected in 1960. I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure Aristotle Onassis wouldn’t have married Pat Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/78 "2011-08-07T02:31:29Z")
> [@littlespeedysuperbike](#): > > I’m not sure if I can give better evidence that the New Deal worked than to note what we were able to accomplish in World War II. We had a high level of industrial might ready to crank up maximum production for the full duration of the war, and no other country can say that. Still a lot of the New Deal was often wasteful not to mention FDR was quite naive about Stalin and he enacted bad ideas like packing the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/79 "2011-08-07T02:55:10Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Still a lot of the New Deal was often wasteful not to mention FDR was quite naive about Stalin and he enacted bad ideas like packing the Supreme Court. Admittedly the New Deal may have been bigger than it needed to be. But you have to realize the Great Depression was a serious crisis - the equivalent of a major war. FDR didn’t poke at it - he threw everything he could think of at it. Then once the worst was over, he started to trim back the New Deal programs that weren’t working out. As for Stalin, I think Roosevelt was a realist. If the atom bomb didn’t work, we were going to want Soviet troops for the invasion of Japan. Roosevelt figured (and the military agreed) that was a higher priority than protesting about the fate of Eastern Europe. And all we could do about Eastern Europe is make protests - the Red Army was already there and we weren’t going to fight another war to push them out. The court packing attempt - that was just wrong and it’s a good thing Roosevelt failed. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072/80 "2011-08-07T03:12:53Z")
Possibly a toss-up between Millard Fillmore, who installed modern plumbing in the White House, and Chester A. Arthur, who put an elevator in it. (Many think James Garfield installed the first elevator; he had planned to but was shot before he could follow through.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-great-u-s-president/591072.md?page=5)