# Who was the last statesman known by their epithet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036 "2009-03-19T16:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/1 "2009-03-19T16:27:04Z")
Everyone who reads history has come across people who were identified by an epithet for some outstanding characteristic good or bad - like “Alfred the Great” or “Ivan the Terrible”. Who is the most _recent_ statesman to have earned a widespread and identifiable nick of that sort? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/2 "2009-03-19T16:38:02Z")
Cedric the Entertainer? What, too soon? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/3 "2009-03-19T16:39:24Z")
Jesse the Body? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/4 "2009-03-19T16:44:51Z")
Catherine the Great maybe? She died in 1796. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/5 "2009-03-19T16:47:52Z")
Found a later one. Ludwig the Mad (aka Ludwig II of Bavaria) died in 1886. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/6 "2009-03-19T16:48:45Z")
Not exactly a statesman- he never held elected office- but Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated in 1948. I presume you don’t feel that “the” is a necessary portion of the epithet. ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/7 "2009-03-19T16:48:53Z")
It doesn’t sound like an epithet to English-speaking ears, but I’d argue for Mahatma Gandhi. His given name in Hindi(?) was “Mohandas”; “Mahatma” means “Great Soul”. Anyway, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. 🙂 And I can’t think of anyone more recent than him. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/8 "2009-03-19T16:50:38Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > His given name in Hindi(?) was “Mohandas” It would be more accurate to say, “his given name”; Mohandas was his name in any language. ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/9 "2009-03-19T16:51:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not exactly a statesman- he never held elected office- but Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated in 1948. GMTA on “Gandhi” **RNATB**. But does one have to hold _elected_ office in order to be a statesman? That sounds a bit odd to me. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/10 "2009-03-19T16:52:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It would be more accurate to say, “his given name”; Mohandas was his name in any language. Point taken. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/11 "2009-03-19T16:55:46Z")
Barring Gandhi, I’d offer Mustafa Kemal “Atatürk”, or Father of the Turks. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/12 "2009-03-19T17:00:28Z")
What about “Der Fuhrer”? Or “Il Duce”? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/13 "2009-03-19T17:02:09Z")
There are efforts to refer to the late Pope John Paul II as John Paul the Great. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/14 "2009-03-19T17:03:03Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > GMTA on “Gandhi” **RNATB**. But does one have to hold _elected_ office in order to be a statesman? That sounds a bit odd to me. Apparently not. I suppose I should have said public office, but he never held one of those either. From the OED: > [@](#): > > statesman > (or stateswoman) > > • noun a skilled, experienced, and respected political leader or figure. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/15 "2009-03-19T17:05:27Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > There are efforts to refer to the late Pope John Paul II as John Paul the Great. Or J2P2. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/16 "2009-03-19T17:08:29Z")
“Tricky” Dick Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/17 "2009-03-19T17:10:53Z")
Does Stalin (“Man of Steel”) count ? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/18 "2009-03-19T17:14:42Z")
What about the Dalai Lama? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/19 "2009-03-19T17:38:15Z")
King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand is always referred to by a (very long) epithet in written documents: ‘His excellency, the great and majestic Lord, strength of the land, incomparable power, son of Mahidol, Rama the avatar of God Vishnu to become the great ruler, leader of the People who is from the House of Chakri, the Great King of Siam, the Royalty who is the Great Shelter.’ That may not be a great translation but it’s along those lines. I’m not sure how Thai people refer to him on a day-to-day basis, and here in the west I think we just refer to him as King Bhumibol. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/20 "2009-03-19T17:39:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Or J2P2. No, seriously? That sounds more like a version number. “Critical Bug Fix: Networking: J2P2v3.exe must be installed or your prayers will not route correctly” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036.md?page=2)