# Who was the last statesman known by their epithet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036 "2009-03-19T16:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/41 "2009-03-20T02:34:22Z")
Does the Saud dynasty go in for this kind of thing? You’d think at least Abdul Aziz or Faisal would have earned some kind of distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/42 "2009-03-20T04:52:47Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I’m not sure how Thai people refer to him on a day-to-day basis, and here in the west I think we just refer to him as King Bhumibol. In the local English-language press, he is His Majesty the King on first reference and HM the King on subsequent references. Sometimes his name is included, sometimes not. The Thais generally refer to him as “the king.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/43 "2009-03-20T07:31:31Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Fidel Castro has been El Lider to Cubans, along with a handful of other sobriquets. Yes, but that’s self-bestowed, same as El Generalísimo. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/44 "2009-03-20T11:10:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yes, but that’s self-bestowed, same as El Generalísimo. Franco was proclaimed Generalísimo by the Junta de Burgos in October 1936. It was an official title, not an epithet, and it was not self-bestowed. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/45 "2009-03-20T16:39:03Z")
Mott the Hoople? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/46 "2009-03-20T18:57:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Barring Gandhi, I’d offer Mustafa Kemal “Atatürk”, or Father of the Turks. I don’t think it counts, since he actually took this as his official last name when it was decided that Turks should now have last names. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/47 "2009-03-20T19:01:25Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > If the [Wikipedia](of the [Ivan the Terrible - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_IV_of_Russia#Sobriquet))explanation is to be beleived then he may well have done: Now all we need is someone to tell us that in Bavarian slang “the Mad” really means “the madly awesome”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/48 "2009-03-20T19:17:23Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I don’t think it counts, since he actually took this as his official last name when it was decided that Turks should now have last names. I never knew that. Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/49 "2009-03-20T20:26:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Gandhi’s the guy to beat. Any later than him? I’m going to argue that Gandhi doesn’t qualify. “Mahatma” is an honorific, not an epithet. That is, it falls more into the category of things like “His Majesty” or “The Right Reverend” than things like “The Great”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/50 "2009-03-20T20:37:36Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > I’m going to argue that Gandhi doesn’t qualify. “Mahatma” is an honorific, not an epithet. That is, it falls more into the category of things like “His Majesty” or “The Right Reverend” than things like “The Great”. It’s an epithet and an honorific. However, “His Majesty” and “The Right Reverend” are applied to holders of a particular title. Gandhi, Phule and other people accorded the appelation were not. ---
**Author:** ![horsetech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/51 "2009-03-20T21:20:05Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Now all we need is someone to tell us that in Bavarian slang “the Mad” really means “the madly awesome”. 😃 Well, there is the English slang phrase “mad skills”. You may have something there. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/52 "2009-03-20T22:09:24Z")
Konrad Adenauer was called _Der Alte_. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/53 "2009-03-21T00:44:48Z")
Epithets that I believe the OP is referring to are closely related to the practice of awarding [Victory titles.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_title) There is a list of monarchs by their nicknames [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_by_nickname) on Wikipedia. However, I’m not sure who is the most recent. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/54 "2009-03-21T01:10:33Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand is always referred to by a (very long) epithet in written documents: ‘His excellency, the great and majestic Lord, strength of the land, incomparable power, son of Mahidol, Rama the avatar of God Vishnu to become the great ruler, leader of the People who is from the House of Chakri, the Great King of Siam, the Royalty who is the Great Shelter.’ That may not be a great translation but it’s along those lines. > > I’m not sure how Thai people refer to him on a day-to-day basis, and here in the west I think we just refer to him as King Bhumibol. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > In the local English-language press, he is His Majesty the King on first reference and HM the King on subsequent references. Sometimes his name is included, sometimes not. The Thais generally refer to him as “the king.” I would add to that that no one here considers him a “statesman,” as any Thai king is constitutionally barred from politics. It’s been like that ever since the 1932 revolution. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/55 "2009-03-21T06:52:01Z")
It doesn’t quite fit the OP but Margaret Thatcher became widely known as The Iron Lady during her days as British Prime Minister. (She was also known as TINA, an acronym for ‘There Is No Alternative’, and by lots of other names among her detractors, but these aren’t really relevant to GQ.) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/56 "2009-03-21T07:57:26Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > It doesn’t quite fit the OP but Margaret Thatcher became widely known as The Iron Lady during her days as British Prime Minister. > > (She was also known as TINA, an acronym for ‘There Is No Alternative’, and by lots of other names among her detractors, but these aren’t really relevant to GQ.) Beat me to it, and it certainly qualifies under \*\*Malthus \*\*'s criteria above, viz: (a) descriptive of some quality of the particular person; and (b) given to that person by other people - not a self-chosen title. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/57 "2009-03-21T08:03:40Z")
CA has quite a few: Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown. The Governator. Jesse “Big Daddy” Unruh. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/58 "2009-03-21T10:52:21Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > It doesn’t quite fit the OP but Margaret Thatcher became widely known as The Iron Lady during her days as British Prime Minister. Doesn’t that epithet pre-date her election as PM? Wasn’t it given to her in the 70s by the Russians? ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/59 "2009-03-22T00:10:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Doesn’t that epithet pre-date her election as PM? Wasn’t it given to her in the 70s by the Russians? Well, first of all these two claims aren’t necessarily incompatible, since she was elected PM in 1979. Wikipedia says that the term ‘Iron Lady’ has been used to describe various strong women, not just Thatcher, and also suggests that the Russians first referred to Thatcher in this way in 1976. I confess that I was a bit surprised when I read this. Just from memory, I would have said Maggie only became known in this way after becoming PM. Guess I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036/60 "2009-03-22T03:06:16Z")
Pretty much every female head of government gets the “Iron Lady” sobriquet. Thatcher, Meir, Gandhi… Angela Merkel’s already getting it, too (_eiserne Mädchen_). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-last-statesman-known-by-their-epithet/490036.md?page=4)