# Who Was the Most Powerful Bureaucrat in American History? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069 "2021-03-31T05:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/1 "2021-03-31T05:07:04Z")
I was just reading a review of a book by a couple crackpots that Fauci was. This is ridiculous considering the poor response to Covid by the Trump administration and that Fauci was mostly ignored by the Trump administration anyway. But this got me wondering who was? My thought is that it would be someone under FDR fighting the Great Depression or World War II. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/2 "2021-03-31T05:12:48Z")
Close. Herbert Hoover. > **[Herbert Hoover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > > Herbert Clark Hoover (August 10, 1874 – October 20, 1964) was an American politician who served as the 31st president of the United States from 1929 to 1933. He was a member of the Republican Party, holding office during the onset of the Great Depression in the United States. A self-made man who became rich as a mining engineer, Hoover led the Commission for Relief in Belgium, served as the director of the U.S. Food Administration, and served ... _When the U.S. entered the war, President [Woodrow Wilson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson) appointed Hoover to lead the Food Administration, and Hoover became known as the country’s “food czar”. After the war, Hoover led the [American Relief Administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Relief_Administration), which provided food to the inhabitants of Central and Eastern Europe. Hoover’s war-time service made him a favorite of many [progressives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States), and he unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination in the [1920 presidential election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_presidential_election)._ _After the 1920 election, newly elected Republican President [Warren G. Harding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding) appointed Hoover as Secretary of Commerce; Hoover continued to serve under President [Calvin Coolidge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge) after Harding died in 1923. Hoover was an unusually active and visible cabinet member, becoming known as “Secretary of Commerce and Under-Secretary of all other departments”. He was influential in the development of air travel and radio. He led the federal response to the [Great Mississippi Flood of 1927](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927)._ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/3 "2021-03-31T05:22:30Z")
Wrong Hoover. It was J. Edgar. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/4 "2021-03-31T05:23:25Z")
I would have though another Hoover had the edge, J Edgar. He wasn’t beholden to mere presidents, even though he “served” under 8 of them. He was a law unto himself. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/5 "2021-03-31T08:00:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Close. Herbert Hoover. That would be Hoobert Heever. His power was always delegated to him by someone else that could take it away any time. Best not even mention his turn at president. J. Edgar has to be at the top, power wise. He created his own power and did with it what he wanted. Once he had established himself, I’m not sure any president could make him do something he didn’t want to do. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/6 "2021-03-31T09:47:00Z")
Two non-political appointees with huge social impact on national institutions. James C Petrillo, the head of the American Federation of Musicians, and Kennesaw Mountain Landis, who organized baseball under his autocratic fist. Political ones were Robert McNamara and Donald Rumsfeld, who walked is into meaningless decade-long wars without a murmur of protest. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/7 "2021-03-31T13:00:31Z")
Donald Nelson, who set priorities for production in WWII. You might be interested in the article here: [http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/BigL/BigL-1.html](http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/BigL/BigL-1.html) You might not consider someone in the military a Bureaucrat, but General Brehon B. Somervell of the Army Service Forces during WWII is worth a mention. Or Lieutenant General Leslie Groves, who oversaw the creation of the first atomic bomb - which affected society and international relationships to the present day. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/8 "2021-03-31T13:07:38Z")
[Robert Moses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses), perhaps. His influence was limited to the New York City area, but he was tremendously powerful. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/9 "2021-03-31T13:14:44Z")
Agree that J Edgar is a good candidate. In charge of a federal police agency and went from one administration to the next. He’s as close to a deep state figure in the US that I can think of ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/10 "2021-03-31T13:59:30Z")
This. With the accumulated dirt Jedgar gathered on people in power (FBI Director since _1925_) he was untouchable. LBJ had to abandon his trademark arm-twisting in favor of flattery to get him to act on the KKK violence in the south. JFK was supposed to have replied to a query about firing Hoover, “You don’t fire God”. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/11 "2021-03-31T14:11:00Z")
The problem with selecting J. Edgar Hoover is that law enforcement is primarily a local government function. Only about 5% of the total law enforcement in the U.S. works for the F.B.I. I was thinking of someone more on the lines of Harry Hopkins. > **[Harry Hopkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hopkins)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Harry Lloyd Hopkins (August 17, 1890 – January 29, 1946) was an American statesman, public administrator, and presidential advisor. A trusted deputy to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Hopkins directed New Deal relief programs before serving as the 8th United States Secretary of Commerce from 1938 to 1940 and as Roosevelt's chief foreign policy advisor and liaison to Allied leaders during World War II. During his career, Hopkins supervised the... ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/12 "2021-03-31T14:23:03Z")
I would have said Hoover, McNamara or Rumsfeld were the biggest _eminences grises_. Not Fauci. Possibly George Herbert Walker Bush? In history, Cardinal Richelieu and Metternich would be high on the list. In American history, some Presidents were probably easier to influence than others and W comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/13 "2021-03-31T14:29:43Z")
George Marshall leaps to mind > **[George C. Marshall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Marshall)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > George Catlett Marshall Jr. GCB (December 31, 1880 – October 16, 1959) was an American army officer and statesman. He rose through the United States Army to become Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army under Presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman, then served as Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense under Truman. Winston Churchill lauded Marshall as the "organizer of victory" for his leadership of the Allied victory in World War II... ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/14 "2021-03-31T14:50:09Z")
That’s the first name I thought of. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/15 "2021-03-31T14:57:52Z")
I think a case could be made for J. Edgar Hoover who, at his height, wielded prodigious power and influence. He had a lot on a lot of people, and even presidents were wary of him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/16 "2021-03-31T15:03:15Z")
Yes, both Hoovers were quite powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/17 "2021-03-31T15:05:02Z")
Nothing sucks like a Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/18 "2021-03-31T15:53:26Z")
Maybe we need two categories: the power to do good, and ~~J. Edgar Hoover~~ the power to do harm. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/19 "2021-03-31T16:02:15Z")
I like that idea. Hoobert heever 😛 is the perfect example of the Peter Principle. A great bureaucrat, one of the best and most powerful, he wasnt a very good president, quite lackluster. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/20 "2021-03-31T16:47:40Z")
J. Edgar Hoover may be the most evident powerful director of a federal agency in popular consciousness but in terms of lasting impact, founding principal and longest-serving director of the Central Intelligence Agency Allen Dulles was far more influential. Hoover had leverage over many aspects of the US government, but Dulles (during his administration of the US intelligence apparatus and as a legacy of that) was responsible for the establishment and overthrow of many governments, including potentially our own. His CIA operated effectively without oversight or legal limits, backing murderous dictators, conducting illegal domestic surveillance, and commanding enormous ‘black budgets’ for programs like CORONA and OXCART, essentially running a shadow paramilitary organization engaged in ‘low level’ conflicts around the globe, the consequences of which we are still dealing with today. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069.md?page=2)