# Who Was the Most Powerful Bureaucrat in American History? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069 "2021-03-31T05:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/21 "2021-03-31T16:49:23Z")
Interesting replies, but I think we all agree- it aint Doc Fauci. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/22 "2021-03-31T17:40:17Z")
Frances Perkins. She developed many New Deal policies, including Social Security. (She also wanted to provide universal health care, but FDR vetoed the idea). > **[Frances Perkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Frances Perkins (born Fannie Coralie Perkins; April 10, 1880 – May 14, 1965) was an American workers-rights advocate who served as the 4th United States secretary of labor from 1933 to 1945, the longest serving in that position. A member of the Democratic Party, Perkins was the first woman ever to serve in a presidential cabinet. As a loyal supporter of her longtime friend, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, she helped make labor issues important... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/23 "2021-03-31T17:43:21Z")
I’d pick Harold Ickes (the father not the son). The policies he promoted had a major impact on most Americans and they are still around today, long after Ickes left office. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/24 "2021-03-31T17:48:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Wrong Hoover. It was J. Edgar. This my vote too. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/25 "2021-03-31T19:22:27Z")
[Anthony Comstock.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Comstock). US Postal Inspector. Crusader against gambling, corruption, and pornography. His definition of which comprised _any_ printed material relating to sex, including anatomy textbooks and literature on birth control, venereal disease, and abortion. Driving force behind the Comstock Law, which made sending any “obscene” material through the US Mail a felony. Boasted of being responsible for 4,000 arrests and 15 suicides. A truly vile man. Interestingly, the Wikipedia article I cite says Comstock’s tactics aroused the attention of and were studied by a young law student named J. Edgar Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/26 "2021-03-31T19:38:24Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > founding principal and longest-serving director of the Central Intelligence Agency Allen Dulles was far more influential This may be a better choice than J. Edgar. I’ll have to quickly make up the excuse that Dulles had more outward facing power and J. Edgar had the inward facing power to affect the average American directly. How’s that? Did it work? I think many of the people listed did not actually have power on their own and any of their ideas could be shot down by the president, maybe congress, at any time. J. Edgar and Dulles worked in a world of their own making. If there were limits on their power they were rarely used. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/27 "2021-03-31T19:56:48Z")
If power is the ability to effect the greatest number of human lives, I would nominate Gen. Curtis LeMay. During WWII, he could incinerate thousands or people in one night simply by pointing at a dot on a map. I also suspect he was the one American during the Cold War who could have figured out a way to circumvent the need for presidential authorization to start a nuclear war. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/28 "2021-03-31T21:22:54Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Frances Perkins. She developed many New Deal policies, including Social Security. (She also wanted to provide universal health care, but FDR vetoed the idea). He didn’t actually veto the idea. In fact the enabling paperwork (it was going to start with wartime regulations) was on his desk for signature when he died. He wasn’t enthusiastic, he may not have actually signed it, but it was ready and he hadn’t made a final decision. I have a book on public healthcare in the US. Starting with Roosevelt every President without exception (at least until Trump) has had a proposal for some form of public “universal” health care. Every time, with the exception of Johnson and Medicare and Medicaid, one side or the other didn’t like it and killed the idea. When Nixon proposed universal healthcare the Democrats decided it didn’t go far enough and opposed it. Later the Democratic proposal was less generous than Nixon’s-and the Republicans opposed it. And so it went. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/29 "2021-03-31T21:25:54Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > the He tried. He really tried. Early in the 50’s he had American bombers literally circling over Vladivostok daring the Russians to try to shoot one down. Fortunately the Russians realized what was going on and waited for the bombers to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/30 "2021-03-31T22:26:00Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > This may be a better choice than J. Edgar. I’ll have to quickly make up the excuse that Dulles had more outward facing power and J. Edgar had the inward facing power to affect the average American directly. How’s that? Did it work? If you start delving into the history of the CIA it is pretty apparent how much influence it had on domestic policy and affairs; it just isn’t nearly as evident as the personal reign of power (and the perverse celebrity) of J. Edgar Hoover. Dulles, who resigned in 1961 in the wake of the Bay of Pigs Affair, is not responsible for the later excesses of the CIA (including its facilitation in the drug trade which has had manifest impacts within the United States) but he certainly established the CIA as being essentially above Congressional oversight and public disclosure. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/31 "2021-04-01T00:08:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Robert Moses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses), perhaps. His influence was limited to the New York City area, but he was tremendously powerful. The corresponding figure in Los Angeles was similarly powerful: > **[William Mulholland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mulholland)** > > William Mulholland (September 11, 1855 – July 22, 1935) was an Irish American self-taught civil engineer who was responsible for building the infrastructure to provide a water supply that allowed Los Angeles to grow into the largest city in California. As the head of a predecessor to the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, Mulholland designed and supervised the building of the Los Angeles Aqueduct, a 233-mile-long (375 km) system to move water from Owens Valley to the San Fernando Valley... Los Angeles’s very existence as anything more than a wide spot in a dusty road depended/depends on his work. A fact darn few Angelenos post about 1960 even know about. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/32 "2021-04-01T00:12:44Z")
Gotta agree with this one ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/33 "2021-04-01T00:34:07Z")
Henry Kissinger (the National Security Advisor era) - secret negotiations in Vietnam, and the _realpolitik_ push to get Nixon to go to China. He actually seemed to _lose_ a little of his mojo when he became Secretary of State. Edith Bolling Wilson - not a bureaucrat, not even the President’s first wife, she effectively ran the country for a year and a half. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/34 "2021-04-01T00:54:46Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > Frances Perkins. She developed many New Deal policies, including Social Security. (She also wanted to provide universal health care, but FDR vetoed the idea). > > He didn’t actually veto the idea. In fact the enabling paperwork (it was going to start with wartime regulations) was on his desk for signature when he died. He wasn’t enthusiastic, he may not have actually signed it, but it was ready and he hadn’t made a final decision. I have a book on public healthcare in the US. Starting with Roosevelt every President without exception (at least until Trump) has had a proposal for some form of public “universal” health care. Every time, with the exception of Johnson and Medicare and Medicaid, one side or the other didn’t like it and killed the idea. When Nixon proposed universal healthcare the Democrats decided it didn’t go far enough and opposed it. Later the Democratic proposal was less generous than Nixon’s-and the Republicans opposed it. And so it went. According to Perkins biography, she pushed for it, but FDR said it would be going too far and he doubted he could get it through Congress. If there was paperwork on his desk, you can bet Perkins worked on it, though. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/35 "2021-04-01T01:15:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > , Thanks. I do so much like the Dope. Unlike most people, including myself, Dopers tend to have significant backup for their statements. I am sure Perkins was the driving force. But the book didn’t dwell on Roosevelt. As I remember it, the healthcare proposals were interpretations of the new Social Security Act. Hmmm, like Medicare. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/36 "2021-04-01T01:45:14Z")
That’s probably right. She wanted to include healthcare with social security from the start. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/37 "2021-04-01T01:57:05Z")
It wasnt. He built highways and dams all over the state. He held both state and local positions and his decisions were never seriously questioned until the 60s with one exception; a proposed Brooklyn-Battery Bridge that FDR had to personally kill for so-called national security reasons. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/38 "2021-04-01T02:00:15Z")
Not close. Moses power was statewide and he was genius in giving any politician a record of achievement. He personally wrote the text of the laws that gave him power and wrote them in such a way that other brilliant lawyers missed them until it was too late. Moses was truly unique in American history. He was in equal parts a genius at his work and utterly ruthless. Even governors were afraid to cross him. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/39 "2021-04-02T17:31:25Z")
The story goes that, long after leaving office, Herbert Hoover checked into a hotel out west. The desk clerk, at a glance only seeing his last name on the registry, asked, “Say, are you any relation to the Hoover who heads the FBI?” Hoover said no. “You’re not the fella in charge of the vacuum-cleaner company, are you?” Hoover again said no. “That’s too bad,” the clerk said, clearly disappointed. “We like having celebrities stay here.” > [@rbroome](#): > > …Early in the 50’s [LeMay] had American bombers literally circling over Vladivostok daring the Russians to try to shoot one down. Fortunately the Russians realized what was going on and waited for the bombers to leave. Never heard _that_ before. Cite? As it happens, a LeMay cousin and his wife are friends of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069/40 "2021-04-02T19:57:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As it happens, a LeMay cousin and his wife are friends of mine. He used to take his daily walk past a gas station I worked at in high school. My boss (a Holocaust survivor) would say “Look at that SOB; he killed more people than you’ll ever meet in a lifetime.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-most-powerful-bureaucrat-in-american-history/939069.md?page=3)