# Who was the North Vietnamese general that Carlos Hathcock shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480 "2015-02-24T02:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/1 "2015-02-24T02:10:26Z")
It’s his second most famous shot; who was the victim? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/2 "2015-02-24T02:43:40Z")
The dead one. I haven’t found an account or article that names him. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/3 "2015-02-25T13:59:48Z")
Personal anecdote: He was the guest speaker at an NROTC “dining-in” I attended in the late 1980s (GySgt Hathcock, not the NVA general). ---
**Author:** ![bdcochran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@bdcochran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdcochran)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/4 "2015-10-25T01:52:17Z")
I will give you an informed speculation. 1. The Chinese did not support the NVA except to allow transit of supplies across China. 2. If a prominent NVA General had been killed, it would have been crowed to the world. 3. The Russians manned the missile sites; just as they had flown the MIGS in Korea. 4. The military aid came from the Soviet Union. 5. It was known that Soviet intelligent officers did serve with the NVA. 6. If it was a General, it would have been a Soviet General and 40 years later you still wouldn’t be told. 7. Some US pilots and valued ground personnel captured by the NVA ended up in the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/5 "2015-10-25T06:47:53Z")
> [@bdcochran](#): > > I will give you an informed speculation. > > 1. The Chinese did not support the NVA except to allow transit of supplies across China. > > 2. If a prominent NVA General had been killed, it would have been crowed to the world. > > 3. The Russians manned the missile sites; just as they had flown the MIGS in Korea. > > 4. The military aid came from the Soviet Union. > > 5. It was known that Soviet intelligent officers did serve with the NVA. > > 6. If it was a General, it would have been a Soviet General and 40 years later you still wouldn’t be told. > O > > 7. Some US pilots and valued ground personnel captured by the NVA ended up in the Soviet Union. This sounds more like the the maunderings of a fantasist than “informed speculation.” What do you have to offer that supports this laundry list? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/6 "2015-10-25T07:00:37Z")
Well, just as a guy who’s read some of the books that mention Hathcock’s exploits, I’m interested in the OP, too. Sounds like “What is the Straight Dope on This?” ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/7 "2015-10-25T11:26:18Z")
So the general at the front, who took over in 1967, says that General Nguyen Chi Thanh did return to the field in 1967…, and died in the FIELD… The story had always been that he died in Hanoi “of a heart attack”… So why the coverup on his death ? Coincidence ? > **[Interview with NVA General Tran Van Tra](https://www.historynet.com/interview-with-nva-general-tran-van-tra/?f)** > > The field commander of military operations in the South, Tran Van Tra was North Vietnam's counterpart to General William Westmoreland. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/8 "2015-10-25T11:36:23Z")
Well it makes some sense… the sniper says that “he regretted doing it because there were reprisal attacks”… Well it was a war and NVA and VC were “attacking” anyway, what was the option ? make friends and share their rice wine or bia hoi (beer) ? But the sniper may been sent in to disturb the Generals planned “Tet Offensive” (which may have occured earlier without the disturbance.) The idea may have been that the failure may demoralise the NVA… Either a. They give up on the plan due to the loss of the general, or b. they go ahead despite having lost the general, and therefore fail… So without the snipers effort, the “test offensive” may have been very deadly to USA/western troops… ? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/9 "2015-10-25T15:28:29Z")
> [@bdcochran](#): > > 1. The Chinese did not support the NVA except to allow transit of supplies across China. The Chinese supplied weapons, supplies and troops to North Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/10 "2015-10-26T00:59:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The Chinese supplied weapons, supplies and troops to North Vietnam. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of North Korea? The Vietnamese had bad relations with China going back to imperial days; the Soviet Union, North Vietnam’s main backer, had split from China earlier; and China was going through the chaos of the Cultural Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/11 "2015-10-26T01:16:42Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Are you sure you aren’t thinking of North Korea? The Vietnamese had bad relations with China going back to imperial days; the Soviet Union, North Vietnam’s main backer, had split from China earlier; and China was going through the chaos of the Cultural Revolution. From [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Other_countries.27_involvement): > [@](#): > > China’s support for North Vietnam was enormous and critical, and included both massive financial aid and the deployment of hundreds of thousands of military personnel in support roles. In the summer of 1962, Mao Zedong agreed to supply Hanoi with 90,000 rifles and guns free of charge. Starting in 1965, China sent anti-aircraft units and engineering battalions to North Vietnam to repair the damage caused by American bombing, man anti-aircraft batteries, rebuild roads and railroads, transport supplies, and perform other engineering works. This freed North Vietnamese army units for combat in the South. China sent 320,000 troops and annual arms shipments worth $180 million. The Chinese military claims to have caused 38% of American air losses in the war. From 1965 to 1969, Chinese military aid sent to North Vietnam and the Viet Cong totaled over $20 billion (approx. $143 billion adjusted for inflation in 2015). China also donated 5 million tons of food to North Vietnam (equivalent to all NV food production in a single year), accounting for 10-15% of the North Vietnamese food supply by the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![bdcochran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@bdcochran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdcochran)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/12 "2018-08-30T17:27:47Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > This sounds more like the the maunderings of a fantasist than “informed speculation.” What do you have to offer that supports this laundry list? > **[Agent says Vietnam POWs were shipped to Russia - UPI Archives](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/03/Agent-says-Vietnam-POWs-were-shipped-to-Russia/7396694414800/)** > > A retired intelligence officer for the National Security Agency claimed in a report published Friday that North Vietnam shipped as many as 300 American... [w.historynet.com/13703647.htm](http://w.historynet.com/13703647.htm) It seems to be the practice today to challenge with prove it. Well I just saw the challenge. Why don’t you take my laundry list and google each concept??? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/13 "2018-08-30T18:00:01Z")
> [@bdcochran](#): > > [Agent says Vietnam POWs were shipped to Russia - UPI Archives](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/01/03/Agent-says-Vietnam-POWs-were-shipped-to-Russia/7396694414800/) > > [w.historynet.com/13703647.htm](http://w.historynet.com/13703647.htm) > It seems to be the practice today to challenge with prove it. Well I just saw the challenge. Why don’t you take my laundry list and google each concept??? **Moderator Note** That article, which is apparently from 1992, appears to address only one of your assertions, which in themselves mostly had little to do with the OP. It’s not up to other posters to “Google your laundry list.” If you’re going to defend your post, you need to provide more evidence. We prefer that old threads in GQ not be bumped unless to provide new factual information. Unless you can do a lot better than this, I’m going to close this. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/14 "2018-08-30T18:33:22Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > It’s his second most famous shot; who was the victim? Not to hijack this thread, but when a military sniper shoots someone, is it proper or appropriate to call the person (who got shot) a victim? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/15 "2018-08-30T21:19:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not to hijack this thread, but when a military sniper shoots someone, is it proper or appropriate to call the person (who got shot) a victim? Sure, I’m ok with it. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/16 "2018-08-30T21:37:57Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Sure, I’m ok with it. Why not? Vic makes it sound like a homocide The General and others that got clipped were casualties of war ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/17 "2018-08-30T21:40:14Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Vic makes it sound like a homocide > > The General and others that got clipped were casualties of war vic·tim ˈviktəm/ noun noun: victim; plural noun: victims ``` a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or **other event or action.** ``` ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/18 "2018-08-30T22:24:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not to hijack this thread, but when a military sniper shoots someone, is it proper or appropriate to call the person (who got shot) a victim? Another hijack but I remember getting very confused when a local news story reported on a woman deliberately getting run down by a car to silence her and the news story still called it a “car accident”, except you know it was very much intentional. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/19 "2018-08-30T22:31:24Z")
“Car accident” has entered the vernacular as any time a car hits something it’s generally not supposed to, whether it was intentional or not. Same as (for some people) “going to the bathroom” means urinating and/or defecating, even when talking about other animals. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480/20 "2018-08-30T23:02:22Z")
Think the correct word is “target”, since a “victim” may not be the intended target. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-north-vietnamese-general-that-carlos-hathcock-shot/713480.md?page=2)