# Who was the Scientology mole... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659 "2018-04-02T19:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/1 "2018-04-02T19:37:29Z")
…who learked the story of Xenu and the Operatong Thetans to the world? Or is this even a matter of public knowledge? Also, while I have learned that it was in 2009 that the Church admitted that the story is official Church doctrine I can’t shake the idea that it was around for them to issue denials of that for several years at least. When was it first leaked? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/2 "2018-04-02T19:46:22Z")
The South Park episode “[Trapped in the Closet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapped_in_the_Closet_(South_Park))” first aired in November, 2005. In it, Stan briefly becomes a Scientologist, and is then believed to be the second coming of L. Ron Hubbard. There’s [a scene in the episode](http://southpark.cc.com/clips/104274/what-scientologist-actually-believe) in which Parker and Stone depict the whole Xenu / spaceships / Thetans story, with a caption at the bottom of the screen saying, “This is what Scientologists actually believe.” It was one of the first times that I saw that information related in the media, but I also wasn’t paying close attention, so there probably was an earlier revelation. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/3 "2018-04-02T19:58:36Z")
They first appeared on the web in [November 1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Clambake#OT_III_documents). ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/4 "2018-04-02T20:03:34Z")
In 1972, a book was written, that shared much of the story: [Xenu - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Leaking_of_the_story) Although I recall seeing ads for Dianetics! on T.V. at that time, I didn’t think much of it – it seemed to my child mind to be one of many “grown-up” self help books. And I tended to group grown-ups as “perfect and in control” or “kids who got old.” I don’t think that 1972 debunking book was that important. I really think the Wikipedia article has it right – the Usenet newsgroup _alt.religion.scientology_ really spread the concept around. Is it really more implausible than Moses and the Burning Bush or Buddha under the Bodai Tree? Kyle: Yes. Yes it is less plausible. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/5 "2018-04-02T20:06:23Z")
Stuf about Xenu and Scientology doctrine “leaked” long before 1996. You can find them in books about Scientology published much earlier. I certainly knew about them by the 1980s. I’ll have to check my records to see when it all first appeared, but look for Paulette Cooper’s _Scandal of Scientology_ (1971), Russell Miller’s _Bare-Faced Messiah_ (1987), Bent Corydon’s _L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?_ (1987)\*, and the interview with Ron deWolf (L. Ron’s son) in _Penthouse_ in 1983. Wikipedia has this to say: > **[Xenu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu)** > > Xenu (/ˈziːnuː/ ZEE-noo), also called Xemu, is a figure in the Church of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology", a sacred and esoteric teaching. According to the "Technology", Xenu was the extraterrestrial ruler of a "Galactic Confederacy" who brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in DC-8-like spacecraft 75 million years ago, stacked them around volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the the These events are ... > [@](#): > > Leaking of the story > > Despite the Church of Scientology’s efforts to keep the story secret, details have been leaked over the years. OT III was first revealed in Robert Kaufman’s 1972 book Inside Scientology, in which Kaufman detailed his own experiences of OT III.[65] It was later described in a 1981 Clearwater Sun article,[66] and came to greater public fame in a 1985 court case brought against Scientology by Lawrence Wollersheim. The church failed to have the documents sealed[10] and attempted to keep the case file checked out by a reader at all times, but the story was summarized in the Los Angeles Times[67] and detailed in William Poundstone’s Bigger Secrets (1986) from information presented in the Wollersheim case.[68] In 1987, a book by L. Ron Hubbard Jr., L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman? quoted the first page of OT III and summarized the rest of its content.[25] > > Xenu as depicted by Panorama > Since then, news media have mentioned Xenu in coverage of Scientology or its celebrity proponents such as Tom Cruise.[69][70][71] In 1987, the BBC’s investigative news series Panorama aired a report titled “The Road to Total Freedom?” which featured an outline of the OT III story in cartoon form.[72] > > On December 24, 1994, the Xenu story was published on the Internet for the first time in a posting to the Usenet newsgroup alt.religion.scientology, through an anonymous remailer.[73] This led to an online battle between Church of Scientology lawyers and detractors. Older versions of OT levels I to VII were brought as exhibits attached to a declaration by Steven Fishman on April 9, 1993, as part of Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz. The text of this declaration and its exhibits, collectively known as the Fishman Affidavit, were posted to the Internet newsgroup alt.religion.scientology in August 1995 by Arnie Lerma and on the World Wide Web by David S. Touretzky. This was a subject of great controversy and legal battles for several years. There was a copyright raid on Lerma’s house (leading to massive mirroring of the documents)[74][75] and a suit against Dutch writer Karin Spaink—the Church bringing suit on copyright violation grounds for reproducing the source material, and also claiming rewordings would reveal a trade secret. \*Guess which one he thinks is the correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/6 "2018-04-02T20:10:26Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It was one of the first times that I saw that information related in the media, but I also wasn’t paying close attention, so there probably was an earlier revelation. I would criticize this statement, but in a way, you are quite right. I bet many, many people learned the truth about Scientology from that episode. I think the “this is what Scientologists actually believe” caption on the bottom of the screen stunned a significant amount of people. It was both hilarious and true. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > They first appeared on the web in [November 1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Clambake#OT_III_documents). That’s certainly what I remember, though I am not surprised to learn it came out earlier in books/articles. I definitely know that by 1997-98, it was pretty easy to look up on the internet and read about Xenu, etc. I’d also like to know who leaked out the info. originally. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/7 "2018-04-02T20:13:58Z")
[Hey, is this new footage of David Miscavige?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emtjD_s6SHA) I barely think of Scientology anymore, but I did a quick search and it looks like he/they have a new video with him in it. I love this line, “I’m sure you’ve heard of Scientology. But no matter what you’ve heard…if you haven’t heard it from us, I assure you…we are not what you think.” Yes…I’m sure. Your “openness” really sells that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/8 "2018-04-02T20:17:10Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I would criticize this statement, but in a way, you are quite right. I bet many, many people learned the truth about Scientology from that episode. I think the “this is what Scientologists actually believe” caption on the bottom of the screen stunned a significant amount of people. It was both hilarious and true. Indeed. I’d known of Scientology since I was in college in the 1980s (and I remember seeing ads for “Dianetics” earlier still), but I’d never really looked closely at it (and never cared to); what I’d read at that time had already led me to believe that they were somewhere between crackpots and fraudsters, even if I didn’t know the whole Xenu bit. I remember, probably during the '80s, reading a magazine article that was critical of Scientology, in which they printed a Hubbard quote (probably from the 1940s or 1950s) where he said something about “the best way to a fortune would be to create a religion” – a quote which didn’t predate the founding of Scientology by very long, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/9 "2018-04-02T20:22:48Z")
Hey, I just noticed that the Straight Dope has been “Fighting Ignorance Since 1973” – seems like early 1970’s was when the fight got started on a number of fronts. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/10 "2018-04-02T20:30:10Z")
IIRC, my first exposure to Scientology was the 1991 Time [cover](http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19910506,00.html) [story](http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,156952,00.html) (which was when I was in high school.) I see that Xenu and the Thetans (mumblemumble band name mumblemumble) is barely mentioned in that. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/11 "2018-04-02T21:09:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > IIRC, my first exposure to Scientology was the 1991 Time [cover](http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19910506,00.html) [story](http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,156952,00.html) (which was when I was in high school.) I see that Xenu and the Thetans (mumblemumble band name mumblemumble) is barely mentioned in that. Still, a notable national source that specifically mentions Xenu. Despite the volcano on the cover, the Time article does not mention Xenu dropping “thetans” or whatever into volcanos? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/12 "2018-04-02T21:17:28Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Still, a notable national source that specifically mentions Xenu. Despite the volcano on the cover, the Time article does not mention Xenu dropping “thetans” or whatever into volcanos? The full text is in my second link. I didn’t reread the whole thing, just did a search. The two terms are in the article only once: > [@](#): > > Hubbard kept adding steps, each more costly, for his followers to climb. In the 1960s the guru decreed that humans are made of clusters of spirits (or “thetans”) who were banished to earth some 75 million years ago by a cruel galactic ruler named Xenu. Naturally, those thetans had to be audited. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/13 "2018-04-02T21:24:10Z")
Arnie Lerma killed himself\* a little over 2 weeks ago. He was I think the first to post Xenu stuff to Usenet. \*For real, not a mysterious assassination, he shot and injured his wife first. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/14 "2018-04-02T21:25:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The full text is in my second link. Weirdly, while the link to the cover says, “May 6, 1991,” the link you provided to the actual story says, “Sunday, June 24, 2001.” It looks like that may be a different story from the cover article story (unless Time has mislabeled the story on their web page, which is possible, since the story gives Miscavige’s age as 31, and he’s now 57). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/15 "2018-04-02T21:33:59Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Weirdly, while the link to the cover says, “May 6, 1991,” the link you provided to the actual story says, “Sunday, June 24, 2001.” It looks like that may be a different story from the cover article story (unless Time has mislabeled the story on their web page, which is possible, since the story gives Miscavige’s age as 31, and he’s now 57). It also lists John Travolta as 37. That is the 1991 article. 2001 might be the date that it was added to the web site. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/16 "2018-04-02T22:08:17Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Arnie Lerma killed himself\* a little over 2 weeks ago. He was I think the first to post Xenu stuff to Usenet. > \*For real, not a mysterious assassination, he shot and injured his wife first. Here’s a story with more information, which does include a graphic picture of his wife at the bottom. It sounds like he suffered from paranoia and chronic pain for many years. [https://tonyortega.org/2018/03/18/noted-scientology-critic-arnie-lerma-shoots-and-injures-wife-then-kills-himself/](https://tonyortega.org/2018/03/18/noted-scientology-critic-arnie-lerma-shoots-and-injures-wife-then-kills-himself/) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/17 "2018-04-03T01:16:19Z")
Is there any doctrine on how Hubbard found out about the Xenu story? I mean, Moses had his burning bush, Mohammad had his social call from Gabriel, Joe Smith had his golden plates. All of these situations represented opportunities for information to be passed along to humanity that really needed intervention from a non-mundane source to happen. That strikes me as the only thing they have in common with the Xenu incident (I mean, other than the extreme unlikelihood of them having happened). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/18 "2018-04-03T01:37:13Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Here’s a story with more information, which does include a graphic picture of his wife at the bottom. It sounds like he suffered from paranoia and chronic pain for many years. > > [Noted Scientology critic Arnie Lerma shoots and injures wife, then kills himself | The Underground Bunker](https://tonyortega.org/2018/03/18/noted-scientology-critic-arnie-lerma-shoots-and-injures-wife-then-kills-himself/) Did Arnie appear on Leah Remini’s show? She’s interviewed a lot of former Scientologists. Can’t recall if Arnie or his wife appeared. Scientology stalks outspoken former members. I can understand how Arnie’s paranoia got out of control. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/19 "2018-04-03T02:55:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Did Arnie appear on Leah Remini’s show? She’s interviewed a lot of former Scientologists. I don’t see him listed in the “[cast list](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6244192/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast)” for the show on IMDB, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t appear. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659/20 "2018-04-03T03:02:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Is there any doctrine on how Hubbard found out about the Xenu story? That Night Train’s a mean wine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-scientology-mole/811659.md?page=2)