# Who was the standard-bearer for EVIL prior to Hitler? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596 "2012-04-02T16:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/41 "2012-04-04T23:06:47Z")
Are we only considering actual people, or would Satan count? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/42 "2012-04-04T23:17:50Z")
No one’s going to take me up on the Nero or Caligula suggestion? I mean, they are reviled pretty widely today in western culture. Were they as widely reviled and considered EVIL 100 years or more ago? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/43 "2012-04-05T00:38:49Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Vlad III was actually fairly unknown outside his native lands where he was a hero who occasionally got too law and order on the people. He didn’t really become famous until the 1970’s when there was interest in all sorts of odd history, conspiracies, monsters, etc. (Remember the In Search Of shows). Raymond McNally’s In Search of Dracula was one of the earliest popular books to discuss Vlad III. That’s what I figured. Thanks. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > No one’s going to take me up on the Nero or Caligula suggestion? I mean, they are reviled pretty widely today in western culture. Were they as widely reviled and considered EVIL 100 years or more ago? Only because Elagabalus is unknown. They are seen as crazy twisted perverts, but aren’t known for genocides. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/44 "2012-04-05T12:02:30Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Vlad III was actually fairly unknown outside his native lands where he was a hero who occasionally got too law and order on the people. He didn’t really become famous until the 1970’s when there was interest in all sorts of odd history, conspiracies, monsters, etc. (Remember the In Search Of shows). Raymond McNally’s In Search of Dracula was one of the earliest popular books to discuss Vlad III. And I would guess that many Christians would consider him a hero, because the people he actually tortured were Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/45 "2012-04-05T14:33:09Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > And I would guess that many Christians would consider him a hero, because the people he actually tortured were Muslims. Ceaucescu certainly did. Not that Vlad restricted himself to Muslims. In the interests of civil order, he did some rather nasty things to his Orthodox Christian subjects as well. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/46 "2012-04-05T16:19:40Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > No one’s going to take me up on the Nero or Caligula suggestion? I mean, they are reviled pretty widely today in western culture. Were they as widely reviled and considered EVIL 100 years or more ago? Nero certainly was (the myth of him fiddling while Rome burned is a few centuries old). Also the Roman Emperor Diocletian was vilified as evil incarnate because of his persecutation of Christians, especially in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox areas were there was wide veneration of saints who reached martyrdom under these emperors. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596/47 "2012-04-05T16:23:18Z")
My German-American grandmother told us that “the Kaiser” was used as the boogeyman for kids when she was growing up, e.g. if you don’t behave the Kaiser will come get you. Previous thread: [Who was Hitler’s Hitler?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6635174#post6635174) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-standard-bearer-for-evil-prior-to-hitler/617596.md?page=2)