# Who was the worse coloniser - the British or the Spanish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238 "2009-06-28T02:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/21 "2009-06-28T20:36:37Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Also, most of the former British colonies continue to belong to the British Commonwealth, and many of them even have the British monarch as their monarch, officially. That implies a certain amount or respect or affection toward the colonizer. > > I don’t know of any equivalent organization of former Spanish, Portuguese, or Belgian colonies. I’ve always heard this was because of what was learned from the American Revolutionary War. I’m not sure what if any implications this has on the original question. ---
**Author:** ![SomeBodyUK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SomeBodyUK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeBodyUK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/22 "2009-06-28T22:16:54Z")
re - Sublimis Deus, (The Sublime God), 1537… What about this? [The Goa Inquisition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition) ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/23 "2009-06-28T22:48:09Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Also, most of the former British colonies continue to belong to the British Commonwealth, and many of them even have the British monarch as their monarch, officially. That implies a certain amount or respect or affection toward the colonizer. > > I don’t know of any equivalent organization of former Spanish, Portuguese, or Belgian colonies. Not equivalent, but similar: [Organization of Ibero-American States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ibero-American_States) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/24 "2009-06-29T01:16:10Z")
**Estilicon** , I think you’re being a touch too defensive here. Admittedly the only place in Latin America I’ve been to is Mexico, but I liked it very much. That still doesn’t change the fact that, in popular imagination, Latin America is Not A Safe Place and that it’s over-run with Revolutionaries (Colombia), Drugs (Most of Central America and Colombia), Elderly Nazis (Argentina), Corrupt Dictators (Most of it), Banana Republics (Central America), Communists (Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela). Those perceptions may not be 100% correct today, but like it or not, that’s the legacy Spain has left their former Colonies in the New World, at least in the eyes of the English-speaking world. To be fair to the Spanish, the heyday of their Empire was 250 years before people in Britain started looking at maps of Africa and saying “You know what this map needs? More red coloured areas”, though. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/25 "2009-06-29T02:12:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, lets put it this way, I’d rather have been a native of colonial Brazil or Mozambique than of the Belgian Congo. But wait. Was the Belgian Congo British or Spanish? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/26 "2009-06-29T02:14:30Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Hernan Cortes killed pretty much anyone the moment they weren’t useful in furthering his plan to kill EVERYONE, so I’d say the Spanish might not have been the friendly colonizers you’re talking about in the OP. At least not at first. This post exhibits extreme ignorance about Hernan Cortes and the conquest of Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/27 "2009-06-29T02:21:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > **Estilicon** , I think you’re being a touch too defensive here. Admittedly the only place in Latin America I’ve been to is Mexico, but I liked it very much. > > That still doesn’t change the fact that, in popular imagination, Latin America is Not A Safe Place and that it’s over-run with Revolutionaries (Colombia), Drugs (Most of Central America and Colombia), Elderly Nazis (Argentina), Corrupt Dictators (Most of it), Banana Republics (Central America), Communists (Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela). Those perceptions may not be 100% correct today, but like it or not, that’s the legacy Spain has left their former Colonies in the New World, at least in the eyes of the English-speaking world. > > To be fair to the Spanish, the heyday of their Empire was 250 years before people in Britain started looking at maps of Africa and saying “You know what this map needs? More red coloured areas”, though. I might accept a certain blame for the Spanish culture in what you say but to a very limited extent for several reasons. One is that Spanish culture, as has been said, mixed with local culture, did not entirely replace it, so what you have is not Spanish culture but a creole mixture. Not to mention that It’s been over 200 years since Spain ruled South America. And, as has been said, in the much more recent history it has been the USA who have intervened and influenced Latin America, politically, economically and militarily. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/28 "2009-06-29T02:33:57Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > You know what? In case someone fails to open the link to the text of the bull, I quote it in full (it’s not long). Also it was promulgated in 1537 and not 1512. > [@Firesign Theatre](#): > > Domine, domine, domine. Yer all Catholics now. And it worked pretty well, considering. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/29 "2009-06-29T02:43:09Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I might accept a certain blame for the Spanish culture in what you say but to a very limited extent for several reasons. One is that Spanish culture, as has been said, mixed with local culture, did not entirely replace it, so what you have is not Spanish culture but a creole mixture. Not to mention that It’s been over 200 years since Spain ruled South America. And, as has been said, in the much more recent history it has been the USA who have intervened and influenced Latin America, politically, economically and militarily. The other thing is that most of the Spanish colonies in The New World became independent in the early part of the 19th century- before such innovations as “Railways” and “The Telegraph” and “Electricity” and “Radio” and so forth were widely available. Most of the British Colonies became independent in the 1950s and 1960s, and when the British left, there was a functioning transport and communication infrastructure that enabled the Westminster-model Government the British set up before they left to continue to govern the country effectively. And even the places that became nominally independent in the 19th Century (Canada, for example) still remained fairly “close” to Great Britain, if that makes sense. Spain, as far as I can tell, basically cut their American colonies loose and pretty much left them to it. So whilst the former British colonies either started out as strong, stable democratic countries or still had the British nearby to lend a helping hand if needs be, the Spanish former colonies did not have those benefits and were basically on their own. So, in that sense, the British _were_ better colonisers than the Spanish, IMHO, because they left their former colonies with solid infrastructure and democratic government, and the Spanish, generally, didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/30 "2009-06-29T02:49:56Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I might accept a certain blame for the Spanish culture in what you say but to a very limited extent for several reasons. One is that Spanish culture, as has been said, mixed with local culture, did not entirely replace it, so what you have is not Spanish culture but a creole mixture. Not to mention that It’s been over 200 years since Spain ruled South America. And, as has been said, in the much more recent history it has been the USA who have intervened and influenced Latin America, politically, economically and militarily. Friends that I have from Mexico City area identify with Aztec culture in a way that is very foreign to me. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/31 "2009-06-29T03:31:41Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > But wait. Was the Belgian Congo British or Spanish? Neither…but my post was in response to the statement that the Portugese were the worst colonizers of all the European powers. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/32 "2009-06-29T04:06:53Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > **Estilicon** , I think you’re being a touch too defensive here. Admittedly the only place in Latin America I’ve been to is Mexico, but I liked it very much. > > That still doesn’t change the fact that, in popular imagination, Latin America is Not A Safe Place and that it’s over-run with Revolutionaries (Colombia), Drugs (Most of Central America and Colombia), Elderly Nazis (Argentina), Corrupt Dictators (Most of it), Banana Republics (Central America), Communists (Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela). Those perceptions may not be 100% correct today, but like it or not, that’s the legacy Spain has left their former Colonies in the New World, at least in the eyes of the English-speaking world. Perhaps. To the eyes of the world Australia is full of convicts and kangaroos. This is supposed to be the SDMB, we do things different in here. And Argentina is both a place were Nazis and one of the world largest and most dynamic jewish communities lives. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/33 "2009-06-29T04:14:41Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That still doesn’t change the fact that, in popular imagination, Latin America is Not A Safe Place and that it’s over-run with Revolutionaries (Colombia), Drugs (Most of Central America and Colombia), Elderly Nazis (Argentina), Corrupt Dictators (Most of it), Banana Republics (Central America), Communists (Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela). Those perceptions may not be 100% correct today, but like it or not, that’s the legacy Spain has left their former Colonies in the New World, at least in the eyes of the English-speaking world. Of course, the meddling of the United States (and European powers earlier on in the history of “independent” Latin America) hasn’t helped matters. That’s not to get into a debate about the “Evil United States” but it’s interesting because a significant percentage of Latin America’s more modern problems can be traced to a former British colony. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/34 "2009-06-29T05:10:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Cortés was trying to conquer, not to exterminate. > > Actually, some of the problems Latin America has today are due to Anglo-American imperialism. Don’t blame the Spanish Crown for banana republics, it’s Anglo-American corporations that took over there & built them. +1. fruit cartels may sound harmless but they are a sheisty bunch. confessions of an economic hitman is an easy read that showcases how corporations exploit countries. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/35 "2009-06-29T05:25:45Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > +1. > > fruit cartels may sound harmless but they are a sheisty bunch. confessions of an economic hitman is an easy read that showcases how corporations exploit countries. That’s a wonderful book but I am very unsure about its legitimacy. I wish I had access to other primary sources that could confirm or deny what he says. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/36 "2009-06-29T05:28:56Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Perhaps. To the eyes of the world Australia is full of convicts and kangaroos. This is supposed to be the SDMB, we do things different in here. Australia _is_ full of Kangaroos. 😉 Also, there’s a news story on the wire service this morning about a military coup in Honduras… like it or not, that sort of thing does seem to happen in Latin America rather often\*, so it’s not like the stereotypes are _completely_ unfounded. \*Ie, more often than, say, India or Kenya or Malaysia ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/37 "2009-06-29T05:44:54Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course, the meddling of the United States (and European powers earlier on in the history of “independent” Latin America) hasn’t helped matters. That’s not to get into a debate about the “Evil United States” but it’s interesting because a significant percentage of Latin America’s more modern problems can be traced to a former British colony. Makes you wonder why Canada, which borders the US for thousands of miles doesn’t have these “modern problems”. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/38 "2009-06-29T06:03:16Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Makes you wonder why Canada, which borders the US for thousands of miles doesn’t have these “modern problems”. They were a British colony made up of mainly british citizens. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/39 "2009-06-29T06:58:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > They were a British colony made up of mainly british citizens. Plus, you can’t grow bananas there. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238/40 "2009-06-29T07:04:54Z")
What **Martini Enfield** said. Walks away whistling nonchalantly, head held high, upper lip suitably stiffened, umbrella neatly folded, knotted handerchief on head [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-the-worse-coloniser-the-british-or-the-spanish/501238.md?page=3)