# Who was this early female aviator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125 "2007-11-20T01:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Genital\_Warthog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/edb3f5/32.png) [@Genital\_Warthog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genital_Warthog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/1 "2007-11-20T01:37:17Z")
I remember reading about her in one of those _Whatever Happened to…_ books from the 1970s, so she was still alive then. I can’t remember a single thing about her accomplishments except that she was a pioneering female aviator. But what I remember her most for was a rather eye-opening quote of hers. After spending the entire interview praising her for her contributions to womens’ rights and being a female role model, the author asked her what she thought about women being police officers and soldiers. She matter of factly stated something to the effect of, “Oh, I think there’s just some jobs that women are not meant to perform. I hope they all get raped their first night on duty.” :eek: The only early female aviator I can think of that lived into the 1970s was Ruth Elder but I have no idea if it was her. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/2 "2007-11-20T02:01:03Z")
Florence Lowe “Pancho” Barnes (July 14, 1901 – March 30, 1975) was a pioneering female aviator who hung out with test pilots. [She](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes) was a pretty colorful character with a salty tongue. I can’t find that quote attributed to her or anyone, but the time frame you are talking about is correct for her. Tom Wolfe talked about her in the book “The Right Stuff”. According to Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Despite a crash in the 1929 Women’s Air Derby, Pancho returned in 1930 under the sponsorship of the Union Oil Company to win the race — and break Amelia Earhart’s world women’s speed record with a speed of 196.19 mph (315.7 km/h). Barnes broke this record in a Travel Air Model R, which she dubbed her “Mystery Ship.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/3 "2007-11-20T02:06:54Z")
[Jackie Cochran?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Cochran) > [@](#): > > She was the first woman to break the sound barrier (with Chuck Yeager right on her wing), the first woman to fly a jet across the ocean, and the first woman to fly a bomber across the Atlantic. She won five Harmon Trophies as the outstanding woman pilot in the world. Sometimes called the “Speed Queen,” at the time of her death, no pilot, man or woman, held more speed, distance or altitude records in aviation history, than Jackie Cochran. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/4 "2007-11-20T02:09:56Z")
Nitpick: Back in those days, she would have been called an “aviatrix”, not an “aviator”. I don’t think that term is used much these days, though. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/5 "2007-11-20T02:23:45Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] Florence Lowe “Pancho” Barnes (July 14, 1901 – March 30, 1975) was a pioneering female aviator who hung out with test pilots. [She](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes) was a pretty colorful character with a salty tongue. I can’t find that quote attributed to her or anyone, but the time frame you are talking about is correct for her. Tom Wolfe talked about her in the book “The Right Stuff”. According to Wikipedia: [/QUOTE] She is also talked about extensively in Chuck Yeager’s biography. I would have loved to have met that woman. She was supposedly ugly enough to send a plane flying supersonic just to get away from her yet she threw some of the wildest parties this side of Caligula. She was also a very wealthy heiress that chose to live in a trailer in the desert running a bar rather than flaunting any money. The young hot-shot pilots like Yeager adored her but their wives did not. She died alone in her desert trailer and it was days before anyone found her body. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/6 "2007-11-20T02:53:18Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I would have loved to have met that woman. [/QUOTE] I knew her son Bill. Dad knew him very well, being in the FAA at WJF. i learned to fly at Barnes Aviation. From what I’ve read ‘Pancho’ lost most of her money during the Depression. But she made a good living supplying milk and eggs and such to the personnel at Muroc. Unlike the shack seen in _The Right Stuff_, Pancho’s (‘The Happy Bottom Riding club’) was actually pretty elegant. It featured a pool shaped like the stars-and-bars (USAF aircraft insignia). To read more, [here is the Pancho Barnes website](http://www.panchobarnes.com/). [IMO] I’ve read _The Right Stuff_, _Yeager_, and _The Lady Who Tamed Pegasus_; and I have the documentary on Pancho. I do not recall ever hearing the quote in the OP. I didn’t know Pancho personally, but from what I’ve read I can’t imagine her saying such a thing. Here is a woman who defied her pastor husband, left him, wound up running guns, became a noted aviatrix, and could out-cuss any man at Muroc. Would she object to women being cops and soldiers? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/7 "2007-11-20T02:59:05Z")
Just checked out [_The Lady Who Tamed Pegasus_](http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Who-Tamed-Pegasus-Pancho/dp/0892880929) (OOS, but available from amazon sellers) and saw [_Pancho: The Biography of Florence Lowe Barnes_](http://www.amazon.com/Pancho-Biography-Florence-Lowe-Barnes/dp/0965218104/ref=pd_sim_b_title_2) (also OOS, but available). I have that one as well. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/8 "2007-11-20T04:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Nitpick: Back in those days, she would have been called an “aviatrix”, not an “aviator”. I don’t think that term is used much these days, though. [/QUOTE] It should be, though. It sounds hot. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/9 "2007-11-20T04:51:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > She was supposedly ugly enough to send a plane flying supersonic just to get away from her ? If so, it doesn’t seem to come through in the photos on the website that **Johnny** found. She’s rather pudgy and plain, especially once she hit middle age, but if that’s what you’d call repellently ugly at the supersonic level, your aesthetic sensibilities must be awfully delicate. But I don’t think it’s a safe bet that Pancho Barnes must have been the aviatrix who made the remark in the OP’s quote. There were actually a lot of early female pilots who lived into the 1970’s, as [the biographies at the Ninety-Nines site](http://www.ninety-nines.org/bios.html) indicate. ---
**Author:** ![Av8trix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@Av8trix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Av8trix)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/10 "2007-11-20T14:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] It should be, though. It sounds hot. [/QUOTE] _I_ like it 😉 -A- ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/11 "2007-11-20T14:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] ? If so, it doesn’t seem to come through in the photos on the website that **Johnny** found. She’s rather pudgy and plain, especially once she hit middle age, but if that’s what you’d call repellently ugly at the supersonic level, your aesthetic sensibilities must be awfully delicate. [/QUOTE] That is what Chuck Yeager said clearly in his biography/autobiography. I have no idea how that came about but he must have said it for a reason because he loved her otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/12 "2007-11-21T02:00:38Z")
[QUOTE=Genital Warthog] “Oh, I think there’s just some jobs that women are not meant to perform. I hope they all get raped their first night on duty.” :eek: The only early female aviator I can think of that lived into the 1970s was Ruth Elder but I have no idea if it was her. Anyone know? [/QUOTE] Beryl Markham? A long shot, to be sure, but she was an aviator and a character. She was born in the UK but grew up in Kenya. She was the first person (male or female) to fly _east to west_ non-stoip solo across the Atlantic. She died in 1986. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/13 "2007-11-21T15:46:25Z")
[QUOTE=633squadron] Beryl Markham? A long shot, to be sure, but she was an aviator and a character. She was born in the UK but grew up in Kenya. She was the first person (male or female) to fly _east to west_ non-stoip solo across the Atlantic. She died in 1986. [/QUOTE] This is who I thought of, too. Also, in the NYTimes book review I could’ve sworn I read about an African American woman pilot back in the day, but have no other recollection beyond that… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/14 "2007-11-21T17:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] This is who I thought of, too. Also, in the NYTimes book review I could’ve sworn I read about an African American woman pilot back in the day, but have no other recollection beyond that… [/QUOTE] [Bessie Coleman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessie_Coleman) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/15 "2007-11-21T18:36:16Z")
I read in the “NATIONAL ENQUIRER” that she was living quietly and peacefully, in Vineland, NJ, in the mid-70’s. I don’t recall what she had to say about her “disappearing act” though! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/16 "2007-11-22T02:47:32Z")
Panch Barnes was something else. She used to show up in Ridgecrest (CA) regularly. She ran the Happay Bottom Riding Club east of Rosamond, CA and near Edwards AFB. The deep, dark suspicion was that it was a brothel, which she always denied. The Air Force and county officials were always trying to close the place but never succeeded. I think the AF finally bought her out. When we first moved out here there was a big arched sign over the road east from Rosamond to EAFB that read HAPPY BOTTOM RIDING CLUB. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/17 "2007-11-22T15:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I think the AF finally bought her out. [/QUOTE] From the link: > [@](#): > > [A] new base commander, General Stan Holtoner, was brought in… As soon as the new commander arrived on the scene, the entire atmosphere at the base began to change. Flight test activity at Edwards Air Force Base greatly increased and some military brass decided that it was time to purchase more land to expand the base. A lowball offer was presented to Pancho for the purchase of her now 380 acre ranch to expand their test airstrip to accommodate supersonic aircraft. However, Pancho balked at the offer, commenting that her ranch was not in the way of any planned future expansion at Edwards that had been previously acknowledged. She also knew that her land and business were worth far more than what had been offered. > > \ > > The court fight became news world-wide, and was referred to as ‘The War of the Mojave.’ Then, shortly before the end of the trial, on November 13, 1953, the ‘Happy Bottom Riding Club’ burned to the ground under highly mysterious circumstances. > > Within days of the fire, the trial ended and Pancho was cleared of all charges [of running a brothel – JLA]. She had fought the government and won. She received a formal apology and over four times what the government had originally offered for her land. However, the will of the scoundrels prevailed. The ‘Happy Bottom Riding Club’ was gone forever. Pancho, her health compromised from the stress of the long court battle, took some time off to re-group, contemplate her situation and plan her future. > > As an interesting historical sidebar, despite the intense battle for Pancho’s land, as of 2005 (more than 50 years later), no expansion of the airstrip near or over her land has ever occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Timz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Timz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-was-this-early-female-aviator/427125/18 "2025-07-21T23:59:44Z")
Jacqueline Cochran held the absolute world record for fastest 2000-km circuit for about nine years. She set it in a P-51 in 1947 or 1948, and no one officially beat it until about 1956 (think it was a Tu-104). True, it could have been beaten earlier, but it wasn’t.