# Who were some early "famous" people (not kings or queens, etc)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 8, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054 "2025-02-08T18:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/41 "2025-02-09T18:49:45Z")
I’d be a bit happier if the OP defined “famous” – still known? famous during his/her lifetime? And even more, when “early” was. Before Christ? Before the invention of modern English? Before the age of print? Without any parameters this is too idle and vague a discussion for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/42 "2025-02-09T19:33:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How about Siddhartha Gautama? Wasn’t he a prince before seeking enlightenment? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/43 "2025-02-09T21:12:44Z")
When you go that far back, I feel like the no royalty rule should be relaxed a bit. “King” in the era of city states was about equivalent to “Mayor with an army.” There would have been lots of princes completely unknown and obscure, and Gautama is famous for something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/44 "2025-02-09T21:36:50Z")
[Diogenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes) was famous enough that [Alexander the Great sought him out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_and_Alexander). That seems pretty “celebrity” to me. Of course, this may not have happened… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/45 "2025-02-10T00:07:45Z")
Was Samuel Richardson the first author to have a fan club? The Pamelists, or something, named after his first hit book “Pamela”. A book so popular, it got a spoof called “Shamela” in 1741. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/46 "2025-02-10T01:04:37Z")
There are those that claim that _Pamela_ was the first novel in the English language: > **[List of claimed first novels in English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_claimed_first_novels_in_English)** > > A number of works of literature have been claimed to be the first novel in English. > The following are other early long works of prose fiction in English not generally considered novels: > There are multiple candidates for first novel in English partly because of ignorance of earlier works, but largely because the term novel can be defined so as to exclude earlier candidates. (The article for novel contains detailed information on the history of the terms "novel" and "romance" and the bodies of t... ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/47 "2025-02-10T01:14:34Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > [Diogenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes) was famous enough that [Alexander the Great sought him out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_and_Alexander). That seems pretty “celebrity” to me. Of course, this may not have happened … but was he cynic? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/48 "2025-02-10T01:25:22Z")
Or a little bit shady ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/49 "2025-02-10T01:48:44Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There are those that claim that _Pamela_ was the first novel in the English language: I read it when I took a course “The History of the Novel”. It was either Pamela, Moll Flanders, or a couple other candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/50 "2025-02-10T02:05:42Z")
Jenny Lind is considered by many to the first American pop star. First in a long line of divas in American culture. And yes I know she was from Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/51 "2025-02-10T02:09:21Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > Sun Tzu > Pythagoras > Methuselah > Homer > Socrates Morons. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/52 "2025-02-10T11:38:25Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > How widely would early troubadours, for instance, have been popular? Absent recorded sound, and bearing in mind the difficulties of travel, I guess one’s dependent on legend and hearsay, as with Blondel: > **[Blondel de Nesle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondel_de_Nesle)** > > Blondel de Nesle (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}French pronunciation: \[blɔ̃dɛl də nɛl\]) – either Jean I of Nesle (c. 1155 – 1202) or his son Jean II of Nesle (died 1241) – was a French trouvère. > The name 'Blondel de Nesle' is attached to twenty-four or twenty-five courtly songs. He was identified in 1942, by Holger Dyggve, as Jean... ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/53 "2025-02-10T12:26:14Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > dunno that Plato or Aristotle ever met Socrates but they definitely knew a lot of his teachings. ETA2: Plato was Socrates student And in turn, Aristotle was Plato’s student. (And Alexander the Great was Aristotle’s student.) ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/54 "2025-02-10T12:34:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > King David is the earliest Biblical character that the historians think there’s evidence of existence That’s a big ‘maybe.’ The [Tel Dan Stele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele) [about 840 BCE] mentions (the inscription is not complete) House of David as a royal line, although interpolating that to the existence of a king named David is stretching things. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > “King” in the era of city states was about equivalent to “Mayor with an army.” Indeed. Although “army” is perhaps too grand a label for “some men with pitch forks and clubs” who could not stand up to “chariots of iron.” ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/55 "2025-02-10T18:45:59Z")
I think there is plenty of evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed. I’m guessing his fame did not spread widely during his lifetime, but after his death and alleged resurrection, Christianity was kind of developed, especialy with Paul writing Romans. How long would it have been until the person of Jesus was _widely_ known about? Widely is probably subjective, but I am wondering how rapid-fire the name of Jesus and the story about him dying on the cross, etc., spread. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/56 "2025-02-10T19:07:39Z")
As Jesus’s name spread, Paul’s spread along with it so the same goes for both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/57 "2025-02-10T19:15:46Z")
I read a book that ranked the 100 most influential people in history and it actually went: 1. Mohammad 2. Jesus 3. Paul ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/58 "2025-02-10T19:17:50Z")
There are an awful lot of Buddhists and Hindus for that to be 100% true I think. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/59 "2025-02-10T19:21:31Z")
The author’s logic/thought was that Mohammad actively spread his religion, while Jesus was more of the source of the religion and Paul did the big writing and spreading of the new faith. I don’t remember the list, so I don’t know where Buddha or influential Hindus would be on the list. It was just one guy’s analysis of history and his opinion. It was also not entirely focused on religion. Einstein, I believe, was the only 20th century person to make the top 10-15 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054/60 "2025-02-10T20:28:52Z")
I read that book too or a similar one. It was in the 90s. In addition Muhammad was a military leader who conquered territory much of which is still held by his adherents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-early-famous-people-not-kings-or-queens-etc/1014054.md?page=4)