# Who were some relatively untalented members of otherwise-talented bands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681 "2011-03-14T18:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/41 "2011-03-15T14:59:18Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Andy Summers of the Police was pretty ordinary, especially when compared to Sting and Stewart Copeland. It wouldn’t be the Police without him, but he didn’t do much to distinguish himself. You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. Andy Summers was, besides Eddie Van Halen and Stevie Ray Vaughn, prolly the most influential guitarist of the 1980’s. His ambient, sound-wash style defined the use of effects for the next 15 years, alongside The Edge (his partner in effects-laden crime, but without Summers’ technical/jazz chops). Your assertion is simply factually inaccurate. And folks are welcome to state they don’t like Geddy Lee - heck, I am not much of a Rush fan myself - but to claim he is untalented, even on a relative basis, is just foolishness. Pish tosh. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/42 "2011-03-15T14:59:38Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Krist Novoselic, bass player from Nirvana. > > Kurt had complained he didn’t practice enough. The only remarkable work he did IMO was the opening bass line in Lounge Act. The bass parts in “Love Buzz” are pretty memorable. The bass line is the hook to the song, and Krist does lots of funky improvization in Kurt’s “noise collage” solo. Both songs show that Krist wasn’t untalented. Usually unremarkable, maybe, but not untalented. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/43 "2011-03-15T15:05:30Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Both songs show that Krist wasn’t untalented. Usually unremarkable, maybe, but not untalented. True - heck, the intro to Lithium is enough to show he can hold a groove well. The problem with Krist is that he was/is a bit of a doofus - too tall for his own good, prone to blurting silliness at awards shows, or beaning himself with a tossed bass - he doesn’t help his case… ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/44 "2011-03-15T15:06:42Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How the Door put up with Jim Morrison so long I will never know. He looked the role. Period. Well, that and the fact that he basically _was_ the band. Compare the dismal, uninspired albums that the surviving trio released under the Doors name in 1971-72 to anything they recorded with Morrison. No contest. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/45 "2011-03-15T15:09:45Z")
I wouldn’t call Krist Novoselic untalented, but he was definitely outshined by the raw charisma of Kurt and the musical talent of Dave. Krist was a perfectly capable musician flanked by two effing geniuses. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/46 "2011-03-15T15:10:47Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **An Arky** , you’re the second (at least) poster to cite Wyman. Keef would agree - he spends no time on Wyman in his book other than to say that he joined the band 'cuz he had a big amp, and that he made weak-ass tea ;). > > But…dude - you’re a rhythm guitarist in a rock band. In some bands, the relationship is primarily between the rhythm guitarist and the drummer, right? That is clearly the case with the Stones - in terms of the roles of the instruments, Keef is the “bass player” of the group - he’s the one who sets the groove with the drummer. If Wyman tried to be That Guy, Keef would’ve killed him. And Darryl Jones can be the bass player, but he is getting paid real money to tuck in behind Keith. (as an aside, and I know you know this, An Arky - but that is the relationship between Hetfield and Ulrich in Metallica and The Edge and Larry Mullin in U2). > > So when I hear Wyman play cool lines like the bass in Sympathy, or hit the groove on other songs, I hear a reasonable talented guy doing what he was told to do. Is he “untalented”? Not for doing what Keith told him to do… > > Oh, and speaking of U2 - for this thread, gotta go with \*\*Adam Clayton \*\*and **Larry Mullen**. Luckiest rhythm section on the face of the earth. Yeah, I didn’t really account for the Keith factor; however, there were times that it seems his part could’ve been stronger, and I can’t imagine why Keith wouldn’t have wanted it stronger; different era, I guess. I do like Wyman’s lines in some songs and don’t think he’s bad at all, just the weakest link. Totally agree on U2… ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/47 "2011-03-15T15:12:59Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. > > Andy Summers was, besides Eddie Van Halen and Stevie Ray Vaughn, prolly the most influential guitarist of the 1980’s. His ambient, sound-wash style defined the use of effects for the next 15 years, alongside The Edge (his partner in effects-laden crime, but without Summers’ technical/jazz chops). Your assertion is simply factually inaccurate. It wasn’t an assertion, it was an opinion. You’re free to disagree, and you clearly do. No big deal. You probably disagree with my other opinions in this thread, too. Most people do. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/48 "2011-03-15T15:16:13Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It wasn’t an assertion, it was an opinion. You’re free to disagree, and you clearly do. No big deal. You probably disagree with my other opinions in this thread, too. Most people do. Sorry - I get feisty about guitar; it’s a sickness. (and, by the way - I was going with early 80’s - Slash came in during the late 80’s. Knopfler was huge, too. Rhoads tucked in behind Eddie (Yngwie was niche) and Johnny Marr and Steve Stevens were part of the ambient-effects gang. This stuff is _important_, man. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/49 "2011-03-15T15:18:27Z")
Through a good portion of their history, the band **Yes** consisted of Steve Howe on Guitar Jon Anderson on Vocals Chris Squire on Bass Rick Wakeman on Keyboards all of which are pretty legendary in their fields and Alan White on Drums. Who is a very good drummer to be sure, but clearly the weakest link. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/50 "2011-03-15T15:19:25Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It wasn’t an assertion, it was an opinion. You’re free to disagree, and you clearly do. No big deal. You probably disagree with my other opinions in this thread, too. Most people do. You said Andy Summers “did not distinguish himself.” By every objective metric, that’s factually untrue. Do you play an instrument? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/51 "2011-03-15T15:21:29Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Well, that and the fact that he basically _was_ the band. Compare the dismal, uninspired albums that the surviving trio released under the Doors name in 1971-72 to anything they recorded with Morrison. No contest. I wouldn’t characterize them as dismal or uninspired. In fact, over the life of the band Robby Krieger wrote about half of their material, so it wasn’t necessarily the content. The musical skill was there as well. The problem is that they continued to use the Doors as their name. The albums were different, and while that’s OK for _The Soft Parade_ because Jim was there, it’s not OK without Jim. People were expecting something other than what they got, and the albums suffered in comparison, especially _Other Voices_. Had they simply taken the expedient of changing the band name expectations would have been reduced and the albums might be seen in a different light today. Seriously, how many people do you know that have actually heard the albums? Very few have or can remember anything about them except for the “fact” that they aren’t any good because Jim wasn’t there, if they even know the albums exist. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/52 "2011-03-15T15:22:44Z")
I have another to add to my own thread. I heard some Public Enemy last night. Chuck D is an awesome rapper. Flavor Flav is…not. Compared to Chuck, Flav sounds like the slow cousin who the adults make sure gets some playtime with the big boys. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/53 "2011-03-15T15:27:28Z")
Mick Avory of the Kinks. The other members were casual/sloppy, but he was just a bad drummer. And I’ll second Mo Tucker of the Velvet Underground. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/54 "2011-03-15T15:27:36Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I wouldn’t call Krist Novoselic untalented, but he was definitely outshined by the raw charisma of Kurt and the musical talent of Dave. Krist was a perfectly capable musician flanked by two effing geniuses. The full musical talent of Dave wasn’t at all evident in Nirvana, where (apart from a single B-side released late in their career) his sole duty was to drum very loud to Kurt’s songs. It wasn’t until the Foo Fighters that the world realized what a great singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist he was. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/55 "2011-03-15T15:30:23Z")
I firmly believe that Dave Grohl is one of the best true musicians of his generation, but you’re right, in that I’m pretty sure in 1994 nobody thought he’d end up being bigger than Kurt. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/56 "2011-03-15T15:30:50Z")
Richie Edwards from Manic Street Preachers, together with Nicky Wire, wrote the lyrics for the first 4 albums (the 4th in absentia - having disappeared, presumed dead, after album 3). Where he fits in relation to this OP though is that he is possibly (hyperbole alert) “the worst guitarist ever” to feature for a relatively successful group. Apparently he played on none of their records - James Dean Bradfield laid down all the guitar tracks - and there are legendary stories about his guitar effectively being turned off when they played live. There is even a story that, at a Japanese festival, the socund techs thought, since Bradfield was singing, that Edwards must be the lead guitarist and turned up his amp - only for it to be apparent that he was barely forming chords. I think he even claimed that his role was to write the lyrics and pose with the guitar. On one level, very talented - few Manic Street Preachers songs post Everything Must Go are lyrically as good as the stuff that Richie Edwards wrote. But musically, incredibly bad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/57 "2011-03-15T15:37:43Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I firmly believe that Dave Grohl is one of the best true musicians of his generation, but you’re right, in that I’m pretty sure in 1994 nobody thought he’d end up being bigger than Kurt. That’s because he didn’t. 😉 He did last a long longer. He’s a better drummer than any of those other things as far as I’m concerned, which isn’t to say he’s not talented. I don’t think I’d ever heard of anyone recording an album basically on their own before he did it for the Foo Fighters’ first album. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/58 "2011-03-15T15:45:37Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I wouldn’t characterize them as dismal or uninspired. In fact, over the life of the band Robby Krieger wrote about half of their material, so it wasn’t necessarily the content. The musical skill was there as well. > > The problem is that they continued to use the Doors as their name. The albums were different, and while that’s OK for _The Soft Parade_ because Jim was there, it’s not OK without Jim. People were expecting something other than what they got, and the albums suffered in comparison, especially _Other Voices_. > > Had they simply taken the expedient of changing the band name expectations would have been reduced and the albums might be seen in a different light today. Seriously, how many people do you know that have actually heard the albums? Very few have or can remember anything about them except for the “fact” that they aren’t any good because Jim wasn’t there, if they even know the albums exist. You have it backwards: the only reason as many people heard those albums as did was precisely because they were credited to the Doors. Those albums did sell; not in the numbers the Doors were accustomed to, but they charted respectably (though _Full Circle_ less so than _Other Voices_) and certainly didn’t go unheard. By contrast, once they started releasing music _not_ under the Doors name–Manzarek as a solo artist, doing some really good, adventurous stuff, and the remaining Doors (with new singer Jess Roden) evolving into the Butts Band–they flopped dismally. As for the quality of the albums, I will admit to never having given _Full Circle_ a totally fair shake, never having bought my own copy after being subjected to dreck like “I’m Horny, I’m Stoned,” “Variety Is the Spice of Life,” and “In the Eye of the Sun” on the previous album. But to my mind, they had exactly one really good song–“Ships w/Sails”–over the course of two albums. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/59 "2011-03-15T15:51:45Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I firmly believe that Dave Grohl is one of the best true musicians of his generation, but you’re right, in that I’m pretty sure in 1994 nobody thought he’d end up being bigger than Kurt. He never got close to Cobain’s success or significance (other than riding his coattails in Nirvana), and his solo career was basically just ok. Nothing special or groundbreaking. Functional power pop. His musicianship and songwriting are fine, but nothing extraordinary. He never held a candle to Kurt’s genius. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/60 "2011-03-15T15:59:39Z")
Dennis Wilson didn’t bring a lot to the Beach Boys besides pedestrian drumming and some raspy vocals. Of course he was the only one who surfed, so he had that going for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681.md?page=4)