# Who were some relatively untalented members of otherwise-talented bands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681 "2011-03-14T18:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/121 "2011-03-17T15:00:35Z")
David Yarritu and Eden in ‘ABC’ (for that matter, anybody not Martin Fry in ABC). Maybe that doesn’t quite fit the OP, since it’s arguable how talented a throwaway singles band is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/122 "2011-03-17T15:13:51Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Having been in a number of bands, I can tell you that the ability to get along with your bandmates is, in itself, a talent. > > Bands aren’t just about music, they’re also about the chemistry of the collective. Some people who may only be average musicians can add a _lot_ to the overall feel simply by being there. Like any job, it can be made a lot better or a lot worse by the personalities of your workmates. > > Bassist X may be an average bassist, but I’d rather have a passable bassist who’s a nice person to be around than a great bassist who’s also a creep. > > Bands do break up because of musical differences, but they also break up because _nobody can put up with that wanker any more_. This is true, and there’s also something to be said for professionalism. A capable background musician who can be relied on to show up for practice, be on time, be sober, know the songs, make the gigs, be equipped and manage his own gear, etc. tends to make himself/herself more valuable than somebody who might be more talented or capable of dazzling musicianship, but misses practices, is a prima donna, is a drunk, doesn’t bother to learn songs or otherwise makes himself/herself a pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/123 "2011-03-17T15:14:07Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > That bass on Sympathy For The Devil is played by Keith. > > Not Bill. Well documented in print and film. :smack: Argh - that sounds right; sorry. Doesn’t change the fact that Wyman was adequately talented, but only a minor variable in Keith’s equation, which he could sub in as needed… ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/124 "2011-03-17T15:27:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is true, and there’s also something to be said for professionalism. A capable background musician who can be relied on to show up for practice, be on time, be sober, know the songs, make the gigs, be equipped and manage his own gear, etc. tends to make himself/herself more valuable than somebody who might be more talented or capable of dazzling musicianship, but misses practices, is a prima donna, is a drunk, doesn’t bother to learn songs or otherwise makes himself/herself a pain in the ass. Reminds me of the story of when U2 was in Australia on the ZOO TV tour, I think. Adam Clayton got wasted and was in no shape to play, so his bass tech filled in. Apparently nobody noticed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/125 "2011-03-17T15:55:52Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Anyway, like **Marley** said, wasn’t Noel Redding (in the Jimi Hendrix experience) essentially Sid Vicious without the charisma? My understanding was that (like Sid) Noel didn’t even play most of the studio tracks, that Jimi recorded most of the bass parts himself. At least Sid brought something to the image of the band. That’s overstating things. It’s not that Redding couldn’t play, it’s that he and Hendrix didn’t get along and it got worse over time. I know Jimi played bass on All Along the Watchtower I’ve read he also handled a few other tracks on Electric Ladyland. Some of that was because Redding and Hendrix were fighting, and other times Hendrix just recorded what he wanted. He was very exacting. And I know Jack Casady played bass on Voodoo Chile because Hendrix was going for a loose, jam session-y atmosphere on that one. It was recorded at the end of a long night. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/126 "2011-03-17T15:59:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s overstating things. It’s not that Redding couldn’t play, it’s that he and Hendrix didn’t get along and it got worse over time. I know Jimi played bass on All Along the Watchtower I’ve read he also handled a few other tracks on Electric Ladyland. Some of that was because Redding and Hendrix were fighting, and other times Hendrix just recorded what he wanted. He was very exacting. And I know Jack Casady played bass on Voodoo Chile because Hendrix was going for a loose, jam session-y atmosphere on that one. It was recorded at the end of a long night. I seem to recall that Redding was a guitarist first and had aspirations to his own Experience-style group and was pressed in as the bassist for Jimi. Sets up a tough dynamic - which, per **Shakester** , is at the heart of a good playing experience for a band… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/127 "2011-03-17T16:08:42Z")
The story is that Noel Redding actually auditioned as a second guitarist for the Experience (I know it sounds crazy now, but they actually considered hiring a rhythm player for Jimi when they were first putting the Experience together)), and came out of his first jam session with Jimi saying, “I’m switching to bass. I can’t see anybody else playing guitar with this bloke.” Jimi hired Redding largely because he could learn songs quickly, and pick up on Jimi’s often convoluted chord progressions without much difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/128 "2011-03-17T16:09:14Z")
It’s true that Redding had no played bass before. I hadn’t heard the rhythm guitar story before. It does say a lot that Hendrix’s other bass player was Billy Cox, an old friend of his from their days in the military. He played some solid funk and blues stuff, the two of them got along very well, and that was that. I meant to add that the three songs Redding wrote for the Experience are totally uninteresting and very dated. The Hendrix-Cox-Mitchell lineup is my favorite, although I realized lately I’d underrated Band of Gypsys. I still don’t think much of Buddy Miles, but it would’ve probably been a less funky affair if Mitchell had played on it. Miles’ primary contribution to the album was writing Them Changes and shutting up just long enough for Hendrix to go absolutely nuts and turn in a historic performance. You can also ignore him pretty easily during Machine Gun and he managed to do We Gotta Live Together in such a way that it’s no great loss the first four minutes of the song were edited out. Hendrix was an amazingly prolific writer and even if it kept the peace a bit, he was too generous in letting other people write songs for him. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/129 "2011-03-17T16:10:32Z")
[QUOTE=Quercus] … wasn’t Noel Redding (in the Jimi Hendrix experience) essentially Sid Vicious without the charisma? My understanding was that (like Sid) Noel didn’t even play most of the studio tracks, that Jimi recorded most of the bass parts himself. [/QUOTE] What on Earth makes you think this? A lot of the early Experience stuff was recorded live. Hendrix was amazing but he couldn’t play guitar and bass at the same time. > [@](#): > > At least Sid brought something to the image of the band. His “image” depends completely on him being dead, I suppose he definitely looks more distictive than Matlock, if you really want the incompetent, pissed, self abusing junky look in your band. Suited the Pistols I guess. Curses beaten to it. ---
**Author:** ![ThePylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ThePylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePylon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/130 "2011-03-17T16:15:50Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I’m standing behind Adam Clayton. He’s a “serious” musician, has more money than God, has the huge benefit of having one of the most inventive guitarists and frontmen in rock, and as far as I know, he essentially serves the role as the “no vote.” His opinion has pretty big sway in U2, so I suppose much of their success is due to his taste. But musically, I’ve never heard a bass line that made me go, “Wow, he’s good.” > > Maybe “Two Hearts Beat As One,” or the bass solo in “Gloria…” “Adam used to pretend he could play bass. He came round and started using words like action and fret and he had us baffled. He had the only amplifier so we never argued with him. We thought this guy must be a musician, he knows what he’s talking about and then one day we discovered he wasn’t playing the right notes, that’s what’s wrong, y’know?” -Bono, 1981 http://u2\_interviews.tripod.com/id11.html ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/131 "2011-03-17T16:44:56Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Like the support for Michael Anthony. Average player but great singer - glad that’s been pointed out. I kind of think Michael was (is) a far better _singer_ than DLR. It’s just that he didn’t have the “frontman” qualities DLR had. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/132 "2011-03-17T17:02:43Z")
Marley23: I think Dave Mason also played acoustic guitar on “All Along the Watchtower,” and he said they recorded the song more than 20 times before it satisfied Jimi. I agree with you that Cox and Miles were Hendrix’s best sidemen, and I think you undervalue Buddy. He give the Experience another singer and a bad-ass funk tone. I wish Jimi had kept Band of Gypsies together because some of his best work (“Who Knows?” “Machine Gun” and “Message of Love”) is on that album. As for Noel Redding, I like “Little Miss Strange” and “She’s So Fine,” but to each their own. ---
**Author:** ![santosvega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@santosvega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/santosvega)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/133 "2011-03-19T00:06:46Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I kind of think Michael was (is) a far better _singer_ than DLR. It’s just that he didn’t have the “frontman” qualities DLR had. Agreed. I’d argue that DLR was the true ‘relatively untalented’ member of early Van Halen. Unless dressing up in ridiculous outfits and high kicking is a talent. Michael Anthony could play and instrument and sing reliably on key. I really don’t like David Lee Roth. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/134 "2011-03-19T00:21:59Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. > > Andy Summers was, besides Eddie Van Halen and Stevie Ray Vaughn, prolly the most influential guitarist of the 1980’s. His ambient, sound-wash style defined the use of effects for the next 15 years, alongside The Edge (his partner in effects-laden crime, but without Summers’ technical/jazz chops). Your assertion is simply factually inaccurate. Not only that, FFS the guy was a session player throughout the late 60s and on thru the 1970s for the likes of Neil Sedaka, David Essex, Jon Lord, etc. He played with Robert Fripp (no slouch guitarist himself, ya know) as well as with Eric Burdon & the Animals. The guy is incredibly talented. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/135 "2011-03-19T00:30:27Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Ginger Baker in Cream. 😕 WTF? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/136 "2011-03-19T13:30:45Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Oh don’t get me wrong, I love Denny and what he brought to the band. Between Brian and Mike, the Beach Boys are the tightest-assed band ever to sing about fun in the sun. Somebody needed to be having a good time. > > And of course most of their albums were produced by studio players - not just the drumming. But I have seen/heard enough clips of Denny playing live, and even saw him with the band shortly before his death, to know he wasn’t a great drummer. But yeah, he could bang his way through “Fun, Fun, Fun” while 12,000 girls screamed so who really cared. > > (mind you - with my screen name, I admit to being a big Hal Blaine fan) It’s worth noting that, when Dennis Wilson finally got around to making his solo album, _ **Pacific Ocean Blue,** _ he didn’t play the drums himself- he hired Hal Blaine to do it! Apparently, Dennis himself knew perfectly well that he wasn’t a great drummer! ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/137 "2011-03-19T14:21:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The story is that Noel Redding actually auditioned as a second guitarist for the Experience (I know it sounds crazy now, but they actually considered hiring a rhythm player for Jimi when they were first putting the Experience together)), and came out of his first jam session with Jimi saying, “I’m switching to bass. I can’t see anybody else playing guitar with this bloke.” > > Jimi hired Redding largely because he could learn songs quickly, and pick up on Jimi’s often convoluted chord progressions without much difficulty. I think the people involved, possibly manager Chas Chandler, realized that Hendrix could add the rhythm guitar by studio overdubs. So they didn’t need Redding for that. I don’t know if finances went into Chandler’s thinking but a three man outfit has to cost less than a four or five man group. Plus since Chandler had been the bass player with the Animals, he might have figured he was qualified to help Redding. Speaking of the Animals and lack of talent, when the original lineup reformed and toured in the early 1980s, the had four other musicians with them. Singer Eric Burdon was upfront saying “look, us five just can’t play as well as well used to, we need help”. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/138 "2011-03-19T17:16:32Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Michelle Phillips was (in my opinion) the least talented of the Mamas and the Papas. Tragically, she’s the only one still living (I have a feeling this will be repeated, and that Ringo will be the only Beatle left at some point). Point taken, but John, Denny & Cass were a pretty high bar to jump. Ringo’s songwriting and singing skills weren’t exceptional, but try imagining a different drummer for the Beatles. As Miles would say -“Cat can play”. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/139 "2011-03-21T04:28:27Z")
Nothing againt Rick Danko, but despite his fine singing, he never stood out in The Band for me as a bassist, and he was a charismatic performer, I’ll give him that. On the fence about Richard Manuel and Garth Hudson, but they’re both fine keyboardists. Not sure what they did just about anybody else could have done, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681/140 "2011-03-21T05:00:56Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > Nothing againt Rick Danko, but despite his fine singing, he never stood out in The Band for me as a bassist, and he was a charismatic performer, I’ll give him that. On the fence about Richard Manuel and Garth Hudson, but they’re both fine keyboardists. Not sure what they did just about anybody else could have done, though. :eek: Well, I’ll see your Richard Manuel and raise you a Gregg Allman. Seriously, The Band were all about the whole being much greater than the sum of the parts. Agree with Clayton/Mullen, & Donna “aaeeeiiiaaaaaaahhh” Godcheaux, although I love Keith’s playing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-some-relatively-untalented-members-of-otherwise-talented-bands/574681.md?page=8)