# Who were the proto-geeks? What did geeks do before electronics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 11, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125 "2004-11-11T01:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/1 "2004-11-11T01:43:40Z")
Geeks - You know them. They live among you. Who and what were they before the age of electronics? What did geeks do to occupy their technical leanings before the tube and transistor? Before the industrial revolution? Were there even any “geeks” in that far away time. What the heck would a American Colonial era or Renaissance era geek do to occupy themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/2 "2004-11-11T01:51:15Z")
Benjamin Franklin, Galileo, and Isaac Newton come to mind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/3 "2004-11-11T02:02:37Z")
> [@Pullet](#): > > Benjamin Franklin, Galileo, and Isaac Newton come to mind. > 🙂 I’m talking about run of the mill technically inclined guys without access to lensgrinders and a Royal Academy stipend. Could a technically minded colonial boy play around with electricity without tempting lightning, or did they have to satisfy themselves with making a better plow? ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/4 "2004-11-11T02:12:57Z")
Mark Twain’s _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court_ comes to mind. He had a working knowledge of most technology available at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/5 "2004-11-11T02:14:08Z")
Maybe they played with steam engines and other mechanical bits, leading to railway mania and dreadnoughts? Before the steam age, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/6 "2004-11-11T02:16:31Z")
How about a watchmaker or blacksmith? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/7 "2004-11-11T02:19:16Z")
I’m sorry, my reply probably came off as snippy. My point was that these were the sort of people who probably did play around in a geek-like fashion, even before they had a Royal Academy charge card. My guess is that men who were like-minded but whose names did not survive history probably focused on useful, small, everyday inventions like the modified plow you mentioned. IIRC, electricity was initially considered a novelty. My understading was that Edison was remarkable for actually doing something with the stuff instead of just zapping people (sorry, can’t find a source). So, early geeks did not necessarily focus on electricity but looked at other topics like physics or engineering. Personally, I don’t think this lessened their geek status, but opions vary. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/8 "2004-11-11T03:31:00Z")
Alchemy. _Seriously_ geeky. If [Paracelsus](http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/paracelsus.jpg) wasn’t the proto-geek, I don’t know who was. We’re talking about people who, among other toils, found practical and sophisticated uses for derivatives of kaka and peepee through experimentation. The very height of geekery, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/9 "2004-11-11T03:37:16Z")
Popular botany! Popular science in the Enlightenment is a cool, cool thing - there were botany clubs where you hung out at inns and talked about your plant specimens, for example. And people like Samuel Pepys who weren’t themselves scientists read a lot on what the scientists were up to - of course, he was in the Royal Society, and his diaries are full of “Went to see somebody do something atrocious to a dog - it was amazing!” But there was a lot of popular science long before we think of people being into popular science with telescopes and ham radios and such. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/10 "2004-11-11T03:38:33Z")
I thought geeks were guys who bit the heads off of chickens in sideshows. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/11 "2004-11-11T03:44:01Z")
I think Leonardo Da Vinci was pretty geeky. And how about all those guys who played around with water clocks? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/12 "2004-11-11T03:47:42Z")
They tinkered. There was always some geek out there trying to invent a better harness or forge a sharper sword. Classic geek invention: movable type. And who but a geek could have invented a suit of armor. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/13 "2004-11-11T03:53:01Z")
Ever heard of the Awkward Age of Mankind? That was because in a dig off the southern tip of California they found skeletons that had vines holding stick-framed “glasses” together with a meticuously flattened stone on each chest. With best speculation, all these men died at the same time since they were unable to reproduce - they were all found alone in or around caves roughly 30km from each other. The exception, as there is always an exception, was when 40 or so of these proto humans were found in a collapsed cave together. Pictures of arial craft and some archaic language was carved into rocks lining the walls of the cave. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/14 "2004-11-11T03:59:57Z")
In the States, they went to [the Rensselaer Institute](http://www.rpi.edu/about/history.html) in Troy NY (est 1824). > [@](#): > > “…the first school of science and school of civil engineering, which has had a continuous existence, to be established in any English-speaking country” ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/15 "2004-11-11T04:01:57Z")
How about the amateur photographers of the 19th Century who stained their hands and risked their health in preparing and developing their own wet-plate negatives? Those guys had to be seriously geeky. For proof, I submit the following poem. I think you have to be at least a little geeky to write poetry about your hobby. From this [page](http://www.firstscience.com/SITE/poems/carroll1.asp), _Hiawatha’s Photographing_ by Lewis Carroll > [@](#): > > From his shoulder Hiawatha > Took the camera of rosewood, > Made of sliding, folding rosewood; > Neatly put it all together. > In its case it lay compactly, > Folded into nearly nothing; > > But he opened out the hinges, > Pushed and pulled the joints and hinges, > Till it looked all squares and oblongs, > Like a complicated figure > In the Second Book of Euclid. > > This he perched upon a tripod - > Crouched beneath its dusky cover - > Stretched his hand, enforcing silence - > Said, “Be motionless, I beg you!” > Mystic, awful was the process. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/16 "2004-11-11T04:07:02Z")
…“in a dig off the southern tip of California…” I’m confused. First, the _very_ southern tip of California is at the end of the Baja California penninsula, Cabo San Lucas - not a very geeky place. (A dig _off_ the southern tip? Kinda wet, huh?)Second, Silicon Valley is in northern California. Let me get out my slide rule and figure out just how far away it is… ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/17 "2004-11-11T04:13:49Z")
How about those stone-age poeple who developed spear points? That’s pretty geeky, to play around with rocks to get a workable sharp tool while your buddies are throwing pointy sticks at mammoths. Ugg: “Hey, check out my new spear point!” Ogg: “My gosh, is that bifacial?” Ugg: “Yeah, it’s the latest model. Flies real smooth.” Assembly of cavemen geeks: “ooooohhhh” ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/18 "2004-11-11T04:17:37Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Popular botany!.. I’m also thinking popular zoology. Guys like Darwin and Bates who ran around in the jungles for years collecting beetles and butterflies. Pretty geeky. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/19 "2004-11-11T05:09:35Z")
Why don’t you define what the term “geek” means without making any reference to electronics or any other sort of technology? You seem to know what “geek” means in terms of somebody’s involvement with electronics or technology, but what does the word mean if it’s not tied to these things. Otherwise, all we can do is just come up with vague analogies. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125/20 "2004-11-11T05:11:50Z")
My dad is vintage 1940, and he played with chemistry sets, radio-controlled planes, hit drops of homemade nitroglycerin with a hammer, made crystal radios. He probably would have been developing his own photos if he’d had the money. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-were-the-proto-geeks-what-did-geeks-do-before-electronics/274125.md?page=2)