# Who will Bush pardon before leaving office in January? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372 "2004-10-15T13:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/21 "2004-10-15T19:24:14Z")
> [@me](#): > > Also, do you have to be convicted of a crime before you can be pardoned? To answer my own question, obviously not, as Nixon wasn’t convicted of anything when he was pardoned. > [@John Mace](#): > > That’s an interesting question. I always thought that you had to actually be charged with something before you could be pardoned. I don’t think a “blanket pardon in advance” is possible. Maybe one of the laywers can enlighten us. > [@Ford](#): > > Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974 So at least circa 1974, this could be done. I wonder if I can get a pardon for my future crimes. That would be better than a liscence to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/22 "2004-10-15T19:27:14Z")
I’m beginning to suspect that some posters here do not understand that a President may pardon “offenses against the United States” - that is, federal crimes. A president may not pardon state crimes. That was what prompted my question – so far as I’m aware, there is no reason to believe that Jenna or Barbara Bush have any criminal liability for federal crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/23 "2004-10-15T19:30:23Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > I wonder if I can get a pardon for my future crimes. That would be better than a liscence to kill. No. A pardon may not precede the offense. Otherwise, the President would have th epower to dispense completely with federal laws. A pardon may precede indictment. See _Ex parte Garland_ , 71 U.S. (4 Wall.) 333, 380 (1867). ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/24 "2004-10-15T19:31:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m beginning to suspect that some posters here do not understand that a President may pardon “offenses against the United States” - that is, federal crimes. A president may not pardon state crimes. Good point, looks like my Bill Frist & Co. pardon prediction is out the window as I’m pretty sure that was a Texas law they were breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/25 "2004-10-15T19:42:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Only if he loses this time. You’re assuming I’m a complete nutjob for betting my hard-earned moolah that Junior is gonna have a go at repealing a certain constitutional ammendment. 😃 And pardon Manson? (jest acknowledged) Is that guy even dangerous anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/26 "2004-10-15T19:44:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps I’m mistaken, but my recollection of the Ford pardon of Nixon was that Nixon as of that moment was not indicted. If that is the case, he may pardon the Swifties who perjured themselves on his behalf. 1. Did any of the “Swifties” testify under oath? 2. Was it in a state or federal proceeding? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/27 "2004-10-15T19:51:38Z")
They did give what they now say was false information in official Navy reports. I’d say falsification of Naval documents would qualify as a federal crime. That in addition to state crimes of slander and libel. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/28 "2004-10-15T20:00:34Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > And pardon Manson? (jest acknowledged) Is that guy even dangerous anymore? Would you want him to move in next door if he ever is pardoned? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/29 "2004-10-15T20:03:28Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > And pardon Manson? (jest acknowledged) Is that guy even dangerous anymore? Just in case my point was missed… Ken Lay draws about as much sympathy from the average American as Manson does. I can’t see any way that Bush would pardon such a high profile villain. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/30 "2004-10-15T20:14:40Z")
I understand your irritation, Bricker. But it’s hyperbole. Ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/31 "2004-10-15T20:23:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I can’t see any way that Bush would pardon such a high profile villain. What makes you think Bush would just then start to care what the public thinks? Kenny Boy is an old friend. The Bushes take care of their friends. Kenny Boy walks. But that will be masked by the blanket pardons for anyone involved in the Plame affair or the Halliburton contract affair, even if the wording is Gerald Ford’s “any and all crimes he may have committed between these dates.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/32 "2004-10-15T20:28:08Z")
I thought Bush was going to throw out the elections and declair himself King or something. Why would he NEED to pardon anyone on his way out?? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/33 "2004-10-15T20:29:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They did give what they now say was false information in official Navy reports. I’d say falsification of Naval documents would qualify as a federal crime. That in addition to state crimes of slander and libel. If you’re talking about the admission that they filed false reports during the Vietnam War, the statute of limitations has undoubtedly long-since expired on any crime. A pardon would be possible, but legally meaningless. Generally, there is no state “crime” of slander or libel. Those are torts, civil wrongs, and may not be pardoned. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/34 "2004-10-15T20:30:04Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > When you pardon someone… isn’t a “wide” pardon of crimes ? Or must you specify ? This is not settled. Indeed, there are many constitutional scholars who believe that Ford’s pardon of Nixon was improper because not only had Nixon not been convicted of anything, he hadn’t even been indicted for anything. Traditionally, pardons are for specific acts that the person has been accused (or convicted) of. As far as that goes, the presidential pardon is unlimited. The president could, in theory, pardon your traffic citations if he so chose. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/35 "2004-10-15T20:32:05Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Can Bush be a candidate in 2008 ? If yes, then I doubt he will pardon Ken Lay. Too controversial. If he loses this time, he is eligible to run in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/36 "2004-10-15T20:37:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > This is not settled. Indeed, there are many constitutional scholars who believe that Ford’s pardon of Nixon was improper because not only had Nixon not been convicted of anything, he hadn’t even been indicted for anything. Traditionally, pardons are for specific acts that the person has been accused (or convicted) of. As far as that goes, the presidential pardon is unlimited. The president could, in theory, pardon your traffic citations if he so chose. Only your traffic citations committed on federal land, and cited by federal authority, such as the Park Service or military police. As I just explained above. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/37 "2004-10-15T21:04:53Z")
> [@ascenary](#): > > This is not settled. Indeed, there are many constitutional scholars who believe that Ford’s pardon of Nixon was improper because not only had Nixon not been convicted of anything, he hadn’t even been indicted for anything. Traditionally, pardons are for specific acts that the person has been accused (or convicted) of. This was challenged in federal court which upheld the pardon. A summary of the case from U of Pitt law school: > [@](#): > > Murphy, a Michigan attorney, brought suit for a declaratory judgment against President Gerald Ford invalidating the pardon on grounds that a pardon could not be legally granted to an individual who had not first been indicted or convicted of a crime. Chief Judge Fox said: “The fact that Mr. Nixon had been neither indicted nor convicted of an offense against the United States does not affect the validity of the pardon. Ex parte Garland, 4 Wall. (71 U.S.) 333. In that case the Supreme Court considered the nature of the President’s Pardoning Power, and the effect of a Presidential pardon. Mr. Justice Field, speaking for the court, said that the Pardoning Power is ‘unlimited,’ except in cases of impeachment.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/38 "2004-10-15T21:08:50Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Would you want him to move in next door if he ever is pardoned? :: mumbling :: Couldn’t be any more of a hole than my current neighbor… :: mumbling :: ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/39 "2004-10-15T21:10:04Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > :: mumbling :: > > Couldn’t be any more of a hole than my current neighbor… > :: mumbling :: If he moved next to your current neighbor you might get rid of that neighbor ! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372/40 "2004-10-15T21:32:59Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > When Bush leaves office in January 2008 Do you know something we don’t know? 😛 Psst. The inauguration will be in Jan '09. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-will-bush-pardon-before-leaving-office-in-january/269372.md?page=3)