# Who won the debate tonight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2000, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361 "2000-10-18T03:37:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/41 "2000-10-18T17:02:07Z")
Who won the last debate? I only saw about half of it, but I’d have to say Gore. To me he seemed articulate, prepared and passionate about his positions, without coming off as a rule-breaking bully. (Which people are making WAY too much of, by the way. When did politics become so wimpy?) The sports analogies that everyone was making seemed accurate - that Gore was debating like a boxer who knows he is trailing going into the last round and needs to score a knockout; Bush like a boxer who knows he is ahead on points going into the last round and needs to avoid a knockout blow and hang on. That said, I’m still voting for Bush. Gore did a better job in this debate of outlining his positions. I just don’t agree with those positions. Freedom2 - You keep talking about your Bush landslide. I personally think you are only doing it on the off chance that it MIGHT happen, and then you will somehow look amazing. I also personally think that you are nuts. We are heading for an extremely close election. As many have said, most of the undecideds will likely not turn out. That means the base of each party will be critical in this election. The Democrats traditionally are more effective at turning out their base. Many major unions have made election day a paid holiday. Do I think Gore will win? No. Do I think Bush will win in a landslide, and Gore will be lucky to get 100 electoral votes? Give me a break. I wish the Republican Party reflected my views a little better - fiscally conservative; socially moderate; very pro-choice and very pro- privacy and individual rights. And no, the Libertarian Party doesn’t cut it. I’ve been to their web site; I’ve read their stuff. Their foreign policy isolationism is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/42 "2000-10-18T17:06:17Z")
Oh, and that “please only vote once” joke; I’m sure I’ve heard that before. Can’t remember who first coined it, but it’s been around the block a few times. Not to say that it wasn’t funny, tho 😃 ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/43 "2000-10-18T17:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by opus \* > \*\*Oh, and that “please only vote once” joke; I’m sure I’ve heard that before. Can’t remember who first coined it, but it’s been around the block a few times. > > Not to say that it wasn’t funny, tho 😃 \*\* Bush has used it a lot in his stump speech. Perhaps it comes from the Chicago tradition of “vote early and vote often”? ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/44 "2000-10-18T17:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Season Strange \* > \*\*NBC wanted to hog both the game (and gab) and the real future of our country… > > And if you prefered the game, then you are part of the problem. \*\* If you believe that there’s any real difference between the two candidates, then you’re part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/45 "2000-10-18T17:33:38Z")
**Milossarian** > [@](#): > > I personally think you are only doing it on the off chance that it MIGHT happen, and then you will somehow look amazing. Actually, I am basing it on what I see the polls saying. I think the media has a vested interest in making this look like a close race. (Viewers and ad revenues) If you look at this race state by state, it is over. If the “undecideds” break for the challenger, like they normally do, then it HAS to be an Electoral landslide. I think the popular vote will be somewhere about 6-8 percentage points in favor of Bush. Check these guys out: > **[RealClearPolitics - Live Opinion, News, Analysis, Video and Polls](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/)** > > RealClearPolitics (RCP) is an independent, non-partisan media company that is the trusted source for the best news, analysis and commentary. > [@](#): > > Al Gore is in BIG, BIG trouble. Tuesday’s debate is absolutely critical for the Vice President. He has to WIN the debate, and he probably has to force Bush into making a significant mistake. A Gore win in St. Louis, without a serious Bush gaffe, will not be enough to change the current dynamic of the race. Bush, on the other hand, just has to appear presidential, competent and not arrogant. > > [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Polls/polls-Electoral\_10\_16.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Polls/polls-Electoral_10_16.html) They currently have it at: Bush 356 Gore 182. I don’t agree with everything they think, but I do agree with most of their analysis. > [@](#): > > I also personally think that you are nuts. You are not the only one…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/46 "2000-10-18T17:50:59Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/) Gore:175 Bush:205 Tossup: 158 Needed:270 Giving Bush 365 electoral votes at this point in the campaign is silly IMHO ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/47 "2000-10-18T17:52:43Z")
oops shoulda been “356” electoral votes is silly… ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/48 "2000-10-18T18:03:52Z")
Does anyone here think it was a little biased for Lehrer to open up calling Bush “bumbling?” It sure looked to me like it threw Bush for a loop for the first 5 minutes or so. **beagledave** CNN??? 🙂 [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-10\_16\_00\_JM2.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-10_16_00_JM2.html) > [@](#): > > Examples of this are everywhere. On Sunday, Cokie Roberts told viewers of ABC’s This Week, “I mean, look at this. We have, today, yet another spate of polls showing this **essentially a dead even race**.” Yesterday Judy Woodruff of CNN introduced a segment by saying “ **With the Presidential race still deadlocked**.” The spate of “dead heat” polls were Battleground Bush **+ 4** , CNN/Time Bush\*\* + 5\*\*, Newsweek Bush\*\* +2\*\*, Rasmussen Bush\*\* + 6\*\*, Zogby/MSNBC Bush **+2** , NBC News Bush **+5** , and USA Today/CNN/Gallup Bush **+ 5**. Were these numbers reversed, would the press still report the race “deadlocked?” > [@](#): > > **The third reason our numbers differ from the other electoral counts is we force call all the states** , even the “toss ups.” Rather than leave 150-200 electoral votes up for grabs, we analyze the electoral college map and call each state. Someone is going to win Pennsylvania and Michigan and we aren’t afraid to stick our necks out and call it as we see it. They have their method posted. It seems fairly reasonable to me. If anything, I think they are hedgeing a little bit in favor of Gore. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/49 "2000-10-18T18:24:22Z")
I watched about half the debate, and it seemed to me that Gore won, although it was close. Of course, Bush might have killed him in the half I didn’t see. But what I really noticed was the liberal slant of the questions. I thought this was supposed to be an audience of undecideds? I never saw a single question that had a conservative flavor to it. Did anyone else notice this? Gore was essentially thrown softballs for the whole time I watched. The same thing happened four years ago in the ‘Town Hall’ debate. It makes me wonder if these ‘undecideds’ are really all that undecided, or perhaps whether there are more liberal undecideds than conservative because of the Nader factor (and Perot four years ago). ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/50 "2000-10-18T18:24:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\*Does anyone here think it was a little biased for Lehrer to open up calling Bush “bumbling?” It sure looked to me like it threw Bush for a loop for the first 5 minutes or so. > \*\* Lehrer DIDN’T call Bush bumbling. Lehrer said that he erred in the previous debate by saying that a Gore TV ad called Bush a bumbler…when it was a Gore spokesman who called him that in a press conference. As for realclearpolitics force calling all the toss up states…I would rather someone say “I don’t know” to a question…than try to “force” a poll predicition in a state…at this point in October. This web site has only been around since August…not exactly a long track record to compare accuracy and results… ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/51 "2000-10-18T18:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* I never saw a single question that had a conservative flavor to it. > \*\* How about the retired military guy asking about military readiness and forces being stretched too thin…THAT was a liberal question? ---
**Author:** ![Lowellster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lowellster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowellster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/52 "2000-10-18T18:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JustAnotherGuy \* > \*\*Therefore, even though I lean towards Gore’s agenda, as does my wife, we are leaning towards Bush and hoping Congress will do the right thing with the budget surplus, abortion issue and tax cuts. Bush will, at a minimum, be an effective President. > \*\* I don’t think there’s any doubt that we’ll have a Republican Congress. You state that you agree more with Gore on the issues, as do I, and the prospect of a Republican Congress combined with Bush as President really concerns me. Wouldn’t depend on that combination to do what I think are “the right thing with the budget surplus, abortion issue and tax cuts”. I loathe Bush’s wishy-washy propaganda bullshit, i.e. “affirmative access”, which I find to be an insult to my intelligence. I know where he gets it, though. I was equally aggravated by “thousand points of light” and “kinder, gentler nation”. All three of these put together are no match for the all time winner, “compassionate conservatism”. The key word is propaganda. I could go on for quite some time, but I’ll resist the temptation… ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/53 "2000-10-18T20:41:11Z")
opus: > [@](#): > > Bush would be steamrolled in a situation like that. Just try to picture him handling the current mideast negotiations, spewing out statements like those above. That would, I believe, just be an embassasment for W., and the US. That’s actually one of my biggest concerns about Bush. You’ve just helped me figure out how to articulate it. When I watch Bush in action, under pressure, I don’t like what I see. When the going gets tough Bush either shuts down and gets visibly ‘steamed’ (I swear, I thought we were verging on fisticuffs last night) or he goes into his good 'ole boy condescention routine. I’ve heard several people call Al Gore arrogant, but Bush strikes me as much more arrogant when he tells us all “how we do it in Texas”. He talks and acts just like every other big-money-cowboy I’ve ever met - he knows just how to handle every situation, because working people is just like working cattle… Bush just makes me want to say “mooo…”. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/54 "2000-10-18T20:46:29Z")
Thought that Bush was disappointing last night. I wish he would have been more articulate. I also had fantasies of Bush sucker-punching Gore when Gore was doing his Sluggo impersonation, trying to intimidate Bush by his girly-man size: “Texas is a big state, Mr. Vice–” WHAM! Gore, on the other hand, bugged me. A lot. He was big, aggressive and annoying. And call me petty, but he had effeminate qualities which I found repulsive. That Southern ac-sayent. A noticable lisp. (At least he toned down the rouge.) More damning, IMO, is that Gore didn’t crack a smile the entire 90 minutes. He has NO sense of humor that I can detect, and utterly lacks charisma – a kiss of death in the media age. Bush, on the other hand, may have not known what the Dingleberry McCormick health care bill was, but had a twinkle in his eye, a sense of humor beneath the serious facade. And everyone – men and women alike – respond to that. I know I did. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/55 "2000-10-18T21:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\* > Bush, on the other hand, may have not known what the Dingleberry McCormick health care bill was, but had a twinkle in his eye, a sense of humor beneath the serious facade. And everyone – men and women alike – respond to that. I know I did. \*\* shades of Ronald Reagan? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/56 "2000-10-18T21:27:31Z")
Shades of Reagan?!? No, Bush’s charisma is in different categories. I would trust Bush to babysit for me. I would trust Bush with my car for a week. I don’t trust Bush with my country for four years, or my best friend in the Persian Gulf for any length of time. I just don’t have faith in his moment-of-crisis ability. I think he could pick one HELL of a cabinet and staff, but ultimately big issues fall on one man, and I feel that Gore (however slippery and underhanded), will be more than capable when it comes to this. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/278dde/32.png) [@JustAnotherGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/57 "2000-10-18T21:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JoeyBlades \* > \*\*opus: > > > [@](#): > > > > Bush would be steamrolled in a situation like that. Just try to picture him handling the current mideast negotiations, spewing out statements like those above. That would, I believe, just be an embassasment for W., and the US. > > That’s actually one of my biggest concerns about Bush. You’ve just helped me figure out how to articulate it. When I watch Bush in action, under pressure, I don’t like what I see. When the going gets tough Bush either shuts down and gets visibly ‘steamed’ (I swear, I thought we were verging on fisticuffs last night) or he goes into his good 'ole boy condescention routine. I’ve heard several people call Al Gore arrogant, but Bush strikes me as much more arrogant when he tells us all “how we do it in Texas”. He talks and acts just like every other big-money-cowboy I’ve ever met - he knows just how to handle every situation, because working people is just like working cattle… > > Bush just makes me want to say “mooo…”. \*\* I disagree on the arrogance battle, but definately agree about the foreign policy role. Maybe he will send in Dick Cheney for all the foreign policy stuff. _grin_ Still waivering with 20 days to go. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/58 "2000-10-18T21:52:33Z")
But I respect the fact that Gore has a clear and detailed plan on teh table in a number of areas. I can evaluate it and decide whether I agree or not. When asked questions (whether relevant or not) he is able to discuss his plans with depth and conviction. Bush has a detailed plan on the table for one issue: tax cuts. In all else he answers in generalities and homilies. He is either unable or unwilling to address specifics in a meaningful way. His response to Gore’s statements about his proposed budget have changed in three debates from “fuzzy math” \>\> “that’s just wrong” \>\> “yes I give a big tax cut to the wealthy”. I also was very disturbed by the smile on his face when he spoke (inaccurately) about executing killers in Texas. Frankly, I was glad an audience member called him on it, and I did not believe him when he responded. The response appeared obviously coached; the smiles were seen in a natural response that could hardly have been anticipated. I know which one I felt was a better indication of how he treats what should be the most grave decision a governor ever has to make. Gore, on the other hand, is a big old pander bear. His proposed budget relies too heavily on social engineering for my taste. He tries to toe the line on gun control, health care reform, medicare reform, and just about every other issue that comes to mind. I do feel he is more capable than Bush to be the chief executive, and I support more of his stated policies than I do Bush’s implied ones (Oh how I wish Bush would just come out and **say what he will do** ), but he is not the man I want as President. Unforunately, nobody else in the field is, either. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/59 "2000-10-18T21:56:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Bush, on the other hand, may have not known what the Dingleberry McCormick health care bill was, but had a twinkle in his eye, a sense of humor beneath the serious facade. And everyone – men and women alike – respond to that. I know I did. Thank you for again pointing out the single biggest flaw in the democratic system: people are too shallow to be trusted with important decisions. Of course, every other system has even bigger flaws. Damn! caught-22 again. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361/60 "2000-10-18T21:58:00Z")
Even though I’m no fan of Gore and a big Nader supporter, I believe that those who say Bush won or even tied must have been watching another debate. > [@](#): > > Bush, on the other hand, may have not known what the Dingleberry McCormick health care bill was, but had a twinkle in his eye, a sense of humor beneath the serious facade. And everyone – men and women alike – respond to that. I know I did. This is a nerve of mine that Dubya has a way of stepping on. I absolutely hate it when people try to hold up their ignorance as a virtue. Never mind that Bush should at least know a little bit about the main “Patient’s Bill of Rights” (Norwood-Dingell) going through Congress, or at least enough to say whether or not he supports it and why. Instead, though, he retreats into good-old-boy mode– > [@](#): > > I talked about the principles and > the issues that I think are important in a patient’s bill of rights. It’s kind of Washington, D.C. focus. Well, it’s in this committee or it’s got this sponsor. If I’m the president, we’re going to have emergency room care, we’re going have gag orders, we’re going to have direct access to OB/GYN. People will be able to take their HMO insurance > company to court. That’s what I’ve done in Texas and that’s the kind of leadership style I’ll bring to Washington. Loosely translated, “You Washington insiders, you think you’re something with all your bills, and your names for bills, and your ‘legislative process’. Well, I’ll tell you one thing, Mr. Bigshot Bureaucrat–I think all babies ought to be allowed to eat.” I’d be more forgiving of Dubya’s poor grasp on the details of issues like these if he would admit it and show some attempt to learn those details. And let us not forget the best response of the debate: > [@](#): > > If affirmative action means quotas, I’m against it. If affirmative action means what I just described what I’m for, then I’m for it. You heard what I was for. The vice president keeps saying I’m against things. You heard what I was for, and that’s what I support. How can you argue with that? Dr. J [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-won-the-debate-tonight/37361.md?page=4)