# Who would be at fault here, driver or pedestrian? (Pedestrian hit by vehicle) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2024, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095 "2024-07-12T09:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/141 "2024-07-18T10:30:20Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > > [@Bullitt](#): > > > > If so, then this pedestrian was negligent. > > Which does not mean that the driver wasn’t negligent, too. And, again, the driver was negligent _while driving a car_. Which is way worse than negligent operation of footwear. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/142 "2024-07-18T12:42:19Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > > [@Bullitt](#): > > > > If so, then this pedestrian was negligent. > > Which does not mean that the driver wasn’t negligent, too. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/143 "2024-07-18T12:46:51Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Defensive driving? Defensive walking as well. In most circumstances I find myself in, crossing a street mid-block is the way I do it. IME, it’s easier/quicker/safer. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/144 "2024-07-18T12:47:30Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I’ve ridden motorcycles for years. Even if the car is wrong and I am right, I do not assume that I’ll be safe. I can be right, but I might be dead right. Motorcycles are irrelevant. As you should know the law and your mother says the motorcyclist is always at fault because those things are dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/145 "2024-07-18T13:09:43Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > That’s not true. Pedestrians in California are required to obey red lights and don’t walk signals. From the California Vehicle Code, 21453 (d): Has that long been the case? I only ask because I have a faint - very likely incorrect - memory of when I was in 8th grade or so - early 70s - and we visited relatives in Cal. For whatever reason I recall there being a conversation about cars ALWAYS having to stop for pedestrians, whether in or out of a crosswalk, in the middle of the street, wherever. (Don’t recall crossing against the light being specifically mentioned.) The conversation made quite an impression on my young mind, coming from Chicago, where jaywalking is a popular pastime, tho the understanding is that you did so at your own risk. Similarly, when I was young we travelled to Mass. I recall being baffled when we approached a curb (not sure if there was a crosswalk) and a car actually stopped! 😲 Instead of speeding up to pass in front of us as I was accustomed to. As I recall (misremember) someone observed that in Mass cars were required to give peds the right of way to a quite liberal extent. I’m sure I may have misunderstood/misremembered something about those remote experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/146 "2024-07-18T13:21:50Z")
There’s also this from that California link I provided earlier: **Do not pass a vehicle stopped at a crosswalk. You may not be able to see a pedestrian crossing the street.** > **[Section 7: Laws and Rules of the Road - California DMV](https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/)** > > Traffic Control When at or approaching traffic signals or signs, yield to pedestrians, bicyclists, and other nearby vehicles that may have the right-of-way. See Right of Way Rules: Who Goes First, in this section. Traffic Signals Solid Red Light A... ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/147 "2024-07-18T14:25:58Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I only ask because I have a faint - very likely incorrect - memory of when I was in 8th grade or so - early 70s - and we visited relatives in Cal. For whatever reason I recall there being a conversation about cars ALWAYS having to stop for pedestrians, whether in or out of a crosswalk, in the middle of the street, wherever. (Don’t recall crossing against the light being specifically mentioned.) > > The conversation made quite an impression on my young mind, coming from Chicago, where jaywalking is a popular pastime, tho the understanding is that you did so at your own risk. I seem to recall when my ship arrived at Alameda or San Diego that along with the traditional advisory on what parts of town were off limits, we were given a warning about the city police treating jaywalking as a serious offense. I don’t recall hearing if it was a California thing or a city thing, but it make sense that it would be a state-level thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/148 "2024-07-18T15:48:31Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I seem to recall when my ship arrived at Alameda or San Diego that along with the traditional advisory on what parts of town were off limits, we were given a warning about the city police treating jaywalking as a serious offense. I don’t recall hearing if it was a California thing or a city thing, but it make sense that it would be a state-level thing. I’ve lived in the S.F. Bay Area my whole life. The police around here rarely enforce the jaywalking laws (and now, since they’re been relaxed, I imagine it’s even more uncommon). The only time I remember it happening was years ago in Oakland, when the police announced they were going to ticket jaywalkers in a small area of downtown. It was unusual enough that it made the news. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/149 "2024-07-18T17:55:17Z")
Jon, Ponch, or some other CHiPs guy on a motorcycle yelled at me for stepping off the curb in LA before the walk sign came on. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/150 "2024-07-18T21:33:54Z")
Too bad it wasn’t Bonnie Clark that yelled at you. ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/151 "2024-07-18T21:58:59Z")
Mr. brown almost caused an accident in a similar situation. In his defense, we had just previously negotiated a couple of people who were stopped in cars in the right lane because they were looking at their phones and they had not noticed that the light had changed to green. Mr. brown was getting pissy about inattentive drivers and the next time we encountered an SUV stopped in the right lane at a green light, he was about to angrily pass it. At the last second he saw the pedestrian emerge from behind the SUV and he stopped in time. The pedestrian crossing against the light and was not paying attention to traffic. Oh, and here’s a somewhat similar one: yesterday we approached the red light at an intersection. It was about four lanes wide, and stopped cars were in every lane but ours. We were in the right-hand lane and preparing to turn right after stopping. Mr. brown checked for traffic and was starting to make his turn, when a teenager on an electric scooter came shooting along in the crosswalk from the left at a high rate of speed. This kid was invisible behind cars when Mr. brown was checking for cross-traffic, but at the speed the kid was traveling, he was in front of us in the blink of an eye. He was wearing headphones and I doubt he heard Mr. brown’s warning honk. Yes, we stopped in time. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/152 "2024-07-19T12:11:24Z")
The little Australian girl??? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/153 "2024-07-19T15:26:25Z")
CHiPs Officer Bonnie Clark (1979–1982): Randi Oakes [![](https://i.imgur.com/cu12Pn6.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/cu12Pn6.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/154 "2024-07-19T16:39:25Z")
Yeah! That would have been cool. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/155 "2024-07-26T04:18:04Z")
I’m not able to watch the video as I don’t have an account. However, one question for those that have watched it, is the crosswalk at an intersection and if so, is the pedestrian crossing AGAINST the light? Or is this one of those “in the middle of the street” crosswalks? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/156 "2024-07-26T12:58:06Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > “in the middle of the street” crosswalks It is a pedestrian crossing in the middle of the street, not at an in intersection. Which makes this almost entirely the drivers fault IMO, even though tne pedestrian was crossing on red The fact there was a truck stopped at a crossing in the middle of the block obviously means there is a pedestrian in front of them (at a junction it may mean the truck is turning but not at a crossing without a junction) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/157 "2024-07-26T13:06:37Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > is the pedestrian crossing AGAINST the light? Or is this one of those “in the middle of the street” crosswalks? It’s in the middle of the street AND the pedestrian is crossing against the light. Just running out from their hiding place in front of the truck against a red light without looking to see if any traffic is coming. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/158 "2024-07-27T02:30:31Z")
I think we’re getting confused. Is it a **mid-block crosswalk**? All crosswalks are in the middle of the street. Mid-block crosswalks are dangerous and should have crossing guards, or flashing lights, or some other way to bring pedestrians to the drivers’ attention. There is no way to have a signal at a mid-block crosswalk unless it was a pedestrian signal. If there was a pedestrian signal, whoever wasn’t following it would be at fault. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/159 "2024-07-27T02:48:01Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I think we’re getting confused. Is it a **mid-block crosswalk**? All crosswalks are in the middle of the street. Mid-block crosswalks are dangerous and should have crossing guards, or flashing lights, or some other way to bring pedestrians to the drivers’ attention. > > There is no way to have a signal at a mid-block crosswalk unless it was a pedestrian signal. If there was a pedestrian signal, whoever wasn’t following it would be at fault. It’s a mid-block crosswalk with a traffic signal for vehicular traffic. The signal is there so that pedestrians can safely cross (as opposed to the flashing lights that I have typically seen for mid-block crosswalks). In the video, the traffic light is green. Presumably there is also a pedestrian signal that the pedestrian ignored. We all agree the pedestrian bears some fault for going against their signal, but have been discussing whether the driver is also at fault for blowing past the stopped truck in the next lane. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095/160 "2024-07-27T02:56:42Z")
Sorry, Instagram hates me and I can’t see the video. That sounds like the pedestrian was at fault. Maybe not 100% at fault, but at fault. One possible complication is that maybe the signal was faulty. The pedestrian still has a duty to not put himself into danger, or to interfere with traffic, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-be-at-fault-here-driver-or-pedestrian-pedestrian-hit-by-vehicle/1004095.md?page=9)