# Who would become President if Bush were to die right now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593 "2008-11-20T02:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/21 "2008-11-20T16:33:58Z")
Just to muddy the water ;): If the VP becomes _acting_ President (e.g. when Reagan was in surgery Bush was acting President) does his plane become Air Force One? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/22 "2008-11-20T16:35:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Just to muddy the water ;): > > If the VP becomes _acting_ President (e.g. when Reagan was in surgery Bush was acting President) does his plane become Air Force One? It becomes Air Force 1.5 šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/23 "2008-11-20T16:42:47Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Iā€™m skeptical of this claim for the simple reason that the current governor (Ruth Ann Minner, a Democrat) could have just appointed Beau Biden to the seat as an initial matter, giving him the incumbency at the next election. I donā€™t say Beau wonā€™t run when the seat comes open, just that they didnā€™t need the kind of engineering you suggest to put Beau in the seat. I think part of the issue might be that Beau Biden doesnā€™t want to be an appointee and then run as an incumbent, for the sake of appearance. He doesnā€™t want to be a Lisa Murkowski. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/24 "2008-11-20T16:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > No, there were a few cases prior to the current system where the VP was out of office, either removed, resigned, or promoted due to the death of a President, where the position was simply not filled. So there would be no Vice President until the next election. > > One of the things many people donā€™t realize is that the primacy of the Vice Presidency (after the President) is a relatively recent thing. For the first 100 years or more of the nation both the Secretary of State and the Secretary of War were positions considered FAR more important and prestigious than the Vice Presidency. So having the position unfilled wasnā€™t considered a true burden or vulnerability of the government. Iā€™m aware of all of this. There are several means by which a Vice Presidentā€™s term of office can end: death, resignation, impeachment, being replaced by a new Vice President being sworn in, or being sworn in as President. And the 20th Amendment apparently created a new one: the Vice Presidentā€™s term of office automatically ends on Inauguration Day. But in the scenario I described, none of these would have happened. So why would his term end? Was there any law that specified the automatic end date of a Vice Presidential term prior to 1933? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/25 "2008-11-20T17:25:13Z")
yes - the Constitution, [Article II, s. 1](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/art2.asp#2sec1): > [@](#): > > 1. The Executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold office during the term of four years, and together with the Vice President, chosen for the same termā€¦ So thatā€™s where the four year term comes from. The [20th Amendment](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/amend1.asp#20) didnā€™t set the four year term - it merely set a new date for the four year terms of the POTUS and the Veep to end: > [@](#): > > 1. The terms of the President and the Vice-President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3rd day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin. The Amendment simply says when ā€œthe termsā€ shall end - it doesnā€™t say that their terms are for four years. The four year term continues to be governed by Article II, s 1. The purpose of the Amendment was to reduce the lengthy ā€œlame duckā€ period. The terms used to end in March, because Washington was first sworn in in March. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/26 "2008-11-21T07:07:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Just to muddy the water ;): > > If the VP becomes _acting_ President (e.g. when Reagan was in surgery Bush was acting President) does his plane become Air Force One? I believe the policy is that during times when the President is incapable of functioning as President (like in surgery), the VP (Acting President) is kept out of risky situations (like flying around in planes). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/27 "2008-11-21T07:13:15Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Like Johnson was legally President as soon as Kennedy was pronounced dead right? > > Or am I mistaken? I seem to recall reading that Johnson was in a waiting room at Parkland Hospital with other officials, when the military officer carrying the briefcase of nuclear codes exited the Emergency Room where Kennedy was and walked into that waiting room. And at that moment, prior to being informed by the doctors, they knew that JFK had died. Whether LBJ was legally President at that time or not, clearly the military saw him as the new Commander-in-Chief, and were willing to obey his orders. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/28 "2008-11-22T13:36:09Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > That canā€™t be right. Iā€™m too lazy to do the textual analysis right now, but my understanding is that the powers of the president immediately transfer to the VP as Acting President. The country cannot be without an effective head of state or commander-in-chief, especially since the death of a president is likely itself a crisis requiring the attention of the president. Does US law recognise the distinction between mandatory and directory statutory requirements? In Anglo-Canadian law, the courts have held that even when a statute directs that some formal step be taken , such as swearing an oath of office, a failure to meet that requirement does not mean the officerā€™s actions are void. Itā€™s simply an irregularity. The courts focus on the substance , not formalities: was the person lawfully the office-holder? If so, a failure to swear an oath of office doesnā€™t invalidate his or her actions. As **Cliffy** points out, the death of the President may trigger a crisis. Do you really want the Constitutionā€™s oath requirement to mean that in a crisis, there is no President capable of giving orders to the military and the civil service, until the formality of an oath has been fulfilled? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/29 "2008-11-22T19:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe the policy is that during times when the President is incapable of functioning as President (like in surgery), the VP (Acting President) is kept out of risky situations (like flying around in planes). Depending on the circumstances in which the President is incapacitated, flying around in an airplane might be the safest place for the Vice President to be. After the 9-11 attacks, when Bush was hustled off to a safe ā€œundisclosed locationā€, for most of the time, that location was Air Force One itself. Obviously, this wouldnā€™t be the case for a scheduled downtime like a surgery, but if a 9-11 style attack were to leave the President injured and comatose, they probably would take to the air, and likely with the President and VP in different aircraft (to prevent decapitation if one were shot down). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/30 "2008-11-22T21:00:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On a related question, the 20th Amendement (enacted in 1933) specifies that the Presidential and Vice Presidential term of office ends on the January 20 following the election. It also created a procedure for filling a vacancy in the Vice Presidency - prior to that, the vacancy was left unfilledā€¦ The 20th Amendment did what you say it did in your first sentence. However, the appointment of VPs to midterm vacancies had to wait until the ratification of the 25th Amendment in 1967. Before then, it was generally thought that the new President took office instantly upon the death or resignation of his predecessor; the 25th Amendment just made it clear. But Art. II, Sec. 1, cl. 8 still provides, ā€œBefore he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmationā€¦ā€ So you might be President, but you canā€™t do anything presidential until sworn in. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/31 "2008-11-23T16:35:39Z")
IIRC, the constitution is subject to Obamaā€™s convenience. could be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/32 "2008-11-23T16:47:53Z")
Yes, you are. On Jan. 20, heā€™ll swear the same oath to preserve, protect and defend it as all of his predecessors. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/33 "2008-11-23T16:52:41Z")
> [@greatshakes](#): > > IIRC, the constitution is subject to Obamaā€™s convenience. > > could be wrong, though. Please refrain from political jabs in the General Questions forum. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/34 "2008-11-23T18:16:37Z")
But what about like a nuclear strike. Suppose the president was killed in a nuclear blast. Obviously the VP would become president. But if he became president couldnā€™t exercise the powers of president till he was sworn in, how could he respond to the blast? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/35 "2008-11-23T18:44:01Z")
Swearing-in takes just moments. But youā€™re right, it just might be the least of his or her worries at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/36 "2008-11-23T18:54:28Z")
I suspect the military wouldnā€™t really care, but it really doesnā€™t take that long to say that oath. Another poster has already pointed out that the extra ceremony of the Chief Justice et al. is not necessary. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/37 "2008-11-24T03:35:08Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Please refrain from political jabs in the General Questions forum. > > **Gfactor** > General Questions Moderator Gotcha.šŸ˜‰ Sorry, all.šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/38 "2008-11-24T05:28:21Z")
Except that the precedent of [Calvin Coolidge](http://www.nationalnotary.org/news/index.cfm?Text=newsNotary&newsID=51) says that only certain people can administer the oath of office to the Veep. Cal was staying with his dad when he heard that Harding had died. His dad was a notary public, and swore Cal in. Doubts were raised whether a state official could swear in a federal official, so Cal had a do-over, in front of a federal judge. So if the pool of people who can swear in a President is limited, what happens during a crisis, and the Veep has been hustled to his ā€œsecure locationā€, and is told the Prez bought it, but thereā€™s no-one in the location who has authority to swear him in? Does he say, ā€œWell, you better contact the Speaker, since heā€™s acting President?ā€ or does he say that heā€™s the President by succession and the operation of law, and will take the oath as soon as thereā€™s someone able to administer it, but in the meantime, heā€™s prepared to govern? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/39 "2008-11-24T05:49:39Z")
Doubts were raised about Coolidgeā€™s oath at the time, itā€™s true, but from what Iā€™ve read the consensus today is that Coolidgeā€™s father - a justice of the peace in Vermont as well as a notary public, IIRC - had the authority to administer oaths to any official, be he federal, state or local. The likelihood of a new President being isolated somewhere with _no one_ authorized to administer oaths - the Secretary of State, for instance - is very, very slight. Commissioned officers of the military are authorized to administer oaths, arenā€™t they? They do when new soldiers, airmen, sailors or Marines are inducted into their respective services, so why not the new CINC? In a crisis such as you describe, thereā€™s bound to be a commissioned officer (or many) around. I suppose it could even be done by phone. Letā€™s hope we never have to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593/40 "2008-11-24T09:59:12Z")
Hadnā€™t thought of the military angle - I believe officers in the Canadian Armed Forces are authorized to administer an oath, so should have realized that US officers would be able to as well. That certainly reduces the concern. Agree that I hope the issue never actually arises. by the way, do you know if the mandatory/directory distinction I mentioned upthread is recognised in the US? I had to research it once, and all the references I found were either Canadian or British cases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-become-president-if-bush-were-to-die-right-now/473593.md?page=3)