# Who would want a cowardly coat of arms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137 "2014-09-22T04:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/1 "2014-09-22T04:02:32Z")
Although perfect for a Chihuahua, who would want heraldry depicting the [Lion Coward](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(heraldry)#mediaviewer/File:Lion_Coward.svg)? Was this actually used, and if so, why? ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/2 "2014-09-22T04:09:00Z")
According to this Wiki it would be imposed on someone due to a breach of honor. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abatement\_%28heraldry%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abatement_%28heraldry%29) ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/3 "2014-09-22T04:36:49Z")
Thanks, I didn’t see that – very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/4 "2014-09-22T04:37:02Z")
A friend of Dorothy? ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vegetable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Space\_Vegetable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vegetable)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/5 "2014-09-22T06:25:00Z")
Sir Noël? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/6 "2014-09-22T06:35:41Z")
When danger reared it’s ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out. ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/7 "2014-09-22T12:00:36Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > When danger reared it’s ugly head, > He bravely turned his tail and fled. > Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about > And gallantly he chickened out. Came for the Monty Python reference. Leaving satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/8 "2014-09-22T12:10:06Z")
How is that any different from a lion rampant? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/9 "2014-09-22T12:31:16Z")
The tail is between its legs. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/10 "2014-09-22T12:33:24Z")
The tail is between the legs. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/11 "2014-09-22T16:23:37Z")
Note that except for the tail, the lion is portrayed in the conventional “rampant” pose, leaping to attack. “Lion coward” would be an abbreviation of “lion rampant, tail cowed”. In western European heraldry, arms are born by individuals, not by families. The eldest son of the eldest son inherits the emblem of his ancestor, but other descendants must make some modification to “difference” their arms from those of the main heir. So people have arms with distinctions that may be barely visible to a casual observer, but are highly important to the heralds who kept the records. Minute changes in the color of the claws, the color of the tongue, the color of the teeth, and the position of the tail, are popular methods of differencing one’s arms. Cowed tails, knotted tails, double tails are some of the most popular variations. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/12 "2014-09-22T17:10:45Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > According to this Wiki it would be imposed on someone due to a breach of honor. > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abatement\_%28heraldry%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abatement_%28heraldry%29) Abatements of Arms were very rarely used, these are more or less theoretical. So to answer the OP- in actual use- never. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/13 "2014-09-22T17:17:30Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > When danger reared it’s ugly head, > He bravely turned his tail and fled. > Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about > And gallantly he chickened out. He didn’t! All lies! He never! [The Crest on Sir Robin’s Shield](http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mikal1/Castle/Shields-Torsos/shieldsirrobin1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/14 "2014-09-22T17:35:36Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > He didn’t! > > All lies! > > He never! > > [The Crest on Sir Robin’s Shield](http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mikal1/Castle/Shields-Torsos/shieldsirrobin1.jpg) Nitpick: “Crest” is the decoration on top of a knight’s helmet. The emblem on his shield is the “Achievement”. Robin’s shield: Quarterly, chequy vert and argent, and plain argent, a chicken rampant regardant sable. A quick google search brings up pictures of him wearing a mail coif, but no helmet. So I don’t know what his crest was. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/15 "2014-09-22T19:45:41Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Robin’s shield: Quarterly, chequy vert and argent, and plain argent, a chicken rampant regardant sable. I would have guessed his shield would have featured a great deal of or instead of argent. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/16 "2014-09-22T23:30:04Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Nitpick: “Crest” is the decoration on top of a knight’s helmet. The emblem on his shield is the “Achievement”. In heraldry, the achievement is the description of the entire shield beginning with the background color followed by the charges, or specific items on the shield. It also includes the description of patterning, such as horizontal/vertical bands, and their colors. The crest appears above the shield and is often the same as one of the main emblems on the shield. For instance if the shield has fleurs-de-lis, then the crest might be one fleur-de-lis, possibly flanked by wings or some other device. However, just the shield alone is supposed to be necessary and sufficient to distinguish the arms of a particular armiger. As it was IRL, so the crest in heraldry may be placed above a helmet, but neither the crest nor the helmet are required where space prohibits them, for example in a heraldic ring. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/17 "2014-09-23T01:15:06Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > Although perfect for a Chihuahua, who would want heraldry depicting the [Lion Coward](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(heraldry)#mediaviewer/File:Lion_Coward.svg)? Was this actually used, and if so, why? Most Chihuahuas I’ve seen strike me as being far braver than you would expect from their size. As for the lion, I wonder if this inspired the Cowardly Lion in _The Wizard Of Oz_? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-want-a-cowardly-coat-of-arms/699137/18 "2014-09-23T03:28:00Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > He didn’t! > > All lies! > > He never! > > [The Crest on Sir Robin’s Shield](http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mikal1/Castle/Shields-Torsos/shieldsirrobin1.jpg) You jest, but witness the [Counts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hennenberg_ZW.png) [Henneberg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Henneberg).