# Who would win? Supercarrier vs Superdestroyer **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400 "2014-07-05T12:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/41 "2014-07-07T19:36:26Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > How is the destroyer going to find the carrier without lighting off a radar or 2? And fire control radars make a **great** target for anti-radiation missiles. > Is the destroyer going to do the search with embarked helos? Great, an air contact, let’s just see where it goes to land. > ( **dba fred** , former USNR LT who spent 1.5 deployments on USS Enterprise (CVN-65) as Surface Watch Officer in CIC [now CDC] _hoping_ something interesting would happen, jealous of the small boys who got to make more port visits) I dont claim to have all the answers. I’m just throwing out a possible scenario where an enemy destroyer might figure out a way to get in close to a carrier. If the navy boys HAVE already thought of this and taken precautions - great! That is their job. I would HOPE that navy intel every now and then throws a few curve balls at their ships to see if they can deal with something unusual. I’d bet our enemies are doing this. BTW, in my scenario a pleasure boat full of bikini clad females approaches the carrier and while the deck of the ship is crowded with hooting and gawking sailors (they have been at sea for 6 months) the pleasure boat secretly paints the ship with a laser targeting system and the anti-ship missiles home in on that, not radar. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/42 "2014-07-07T19:50:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I think your forgetting that a determined enemy will study the other and look for weaknesses or will build a weapons platform to beat the enemy. > > So in this situation as I said, the destroyer wouldnt sit hundreds of miles away and wait for the carrier to take it out. It would figure out a way to get in closer. And those 4 harpoon missiles - why not upgrade and make it 8, or even 10? The point is they know they must get in close and they have just ONE shot to fire at the carrier with the hopes of overwhelming its defenses. > > Now hopefully the US Navy has also thought of just this scenario and has taken precautions. If it makes you feel better, Wiki list it as having 2x quad Harpoon launchers, so it looks like they can throw 8 harpoons at the carrier as well as 1 or 2 Lynx HMA8s armed with 4 Sea Skua missiles each. So the Destroyer could, in a perfect situation, put 16 anti ship-missiles and one 4.5 in. gun on the carrier. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/43 "2014-07-07T20:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=Urbanredneck] I dont claim to have all the answers. I’m just throwing out a possible scenario where an enemy destroyer might figure out a way to get in close to a carrier. If the navy boys HAVE already thought of this and taken precautions - great! That is their job. I would HOPE that navy intel every now and then throws a few curve balls at their ships to see if they can deal with something unusual. I’d bet our enemies are doing this. [/QUOTE] So, you are hanging your hat on a low probability event then? Well, that’s fine…I mean, it worked out for AQ on 9/11 after all. And certainly it COULD work out for the destroyer if it catches all the breaks, if the carrier skipper is an idiot and does everything wrong, and if the gods favor the destroyer, etc etc. But the odds are going to be seriously long in the scenario given in the OP. As for in more realistic circumstances, of course the enemy (and probably some of our allies) have and are gaming various ways to take out a carrier. It’s what military people do after all…they game different things and try and come up with ways to take out large strategic systems like carriers. The US has gamed different ways to take out a carrier, including a large group of rubber zodiac type boats armed (IIRC) with harpoons. > [@](#): > > BTW, in my scenario a pleasure boat full of bikini clad females approaches the carrier and while the deck of the ship is crowded with hooting and gawking sailors (they have been at sea for 6 months) the pleasure boat secretly paints the ship with a laser targeting system and the anti-ship missiles home in on that, not radar. So, your scenario counts on the carrier skipper (and all the crew) being complete idiots? You actually believe that a carrier is going to allow a pleasure boat to sail right up to the carrier so that the crew can gawk over the side at bikini clad females cavorting about?? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/44 "2014-07-07T21:47:08Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m just throwing out a possible scenario where an enemy destroyer might figure out a way to get in close to a carrier. Bad weather, where you can’t fly, and rough seas, where your radar is almost useless, the destroyer simply sails within range and takes out the carrier. The weakness of a carrier is when you can’t fly. A destroyer can still sail in bad weather. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/45 "2014-07-07T21:57:18Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] ad weather, where you can’t fly, and rough seas, where your radar is almost useless, the destroyer simply sails within range and takes out the carrier. [/QUOTE] Dumb luck could certainly be a factor, but this scenario would literally be finding the proverbial needle in a hay stack. It COULD certainly happen, but relying on such a low probability event seems a bit like wishful thinking. > [@](#): > > The weakness of a carrier is when you can’t fly. A destroyer can still sail in bad weather. How would the destroyer find the carrier? If the weather was so bad that you couldn’t do any carrier operations at all and so bad that radar doesn’t work, you are talking about the destroyer (which can’t move as fast as the carrier and doesn’t have the range) basically stumbling upon it somewhere in the middle of the ocean. Blind squirrels and acorns and all that. ---
**Author:** ![jcheung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b77776/32.png) [@jcheung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jcheung)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/46 "2014-07-07T23:04:24Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > If it makes you feel better, Wiki list it as having 2x quad Harpoon launchers, so it looks like they can throw 8 harpoons at the carrier as well as 1 or 2 Lynx HMA8s armed with 4 Sea Skua missiles each. So the Destroyer could, in a perfect situation, put 16 anti ship-missiles and one 4.5 in. gun on the carrier. Hmmm… Yes, I forgot about the choppers, but even so, that would be 3 separate salvos, since the sea skuas travel at a different speed, and 4 of the 8 tubes for harpoons are pointed in the opposite direction… The perfect situation at point blank range would be CIWS, 30mm gun, minigun, x3 general purpose machine guns 4.5 inch gun, 4 harpoons, 8 sea skua. But if you’re in range of the 4.5 inch, something’s very wrong in the first place. If you’re in the range of the sea skuas, something’s still off! > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Bad weather, where you can’t fly, and rough seas, where your radar is almost useless, the destroyer simply sails within range and takes out the carrier. > > The weakness of a carrier is when you can’t fly. A destroyer can still sail in bad weather. Ok, take 2 people, put them in a large room. Cut off their sight and hearing, give them a paintball gun, and have them shoot each other. Bad weather can be picked up on radar and avoided… ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400/47 "2014-07-08T03:21:08Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Bad weather, where you can’t fly, and rough seas, where your radar is almost useless, the destroyer simply sails within range and takes out the carrier. > > The weakness of a carrier is when you can’t fly. A destroyer can still sail in bad weather. Weather so bad that it renders flying and radar useless doesn’t happen anymore, at least not without it being so bad that the destroyer isn’t going to be able to sail in it either. If were talking a hurricane, sure the carrier isn’t going to be able to launch aircraft, but the destroyer isn’t going to want to be sailing through it either. All-weather attack has become the norm since the 1960s or so. Night, rain, thunderstorms, high winds; none of those prevent flying attack missions off of an aircraft carrier. See just for example the [A-6 Intruder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_A-6_Intruder): > [@](#): > > The Grumman A-6 Intruder was an American, twin jet-engine, mid-wing all-weather attack aircraft built by Grumman Aerospace. In service with the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps between 1963 and 1997, the Intruder was designed as an all-weather medium attack aircraft to replace the piston-engined Douglas A-1 Skyraider. As the A-6E was slated for retirement, its precision strike mission was taken over by the Grumman F-14 Tomcat equipped with a LANTIRN pod. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-supercarrier-vs-superdestroyer/692400.md?page=2)