# Who would win, the squad from Predator or Aliens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013 "2018-09-27T12:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/61 "2018-10-04T00:12:50Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Hudson was the guy who went from “tactical smart missiles, phased plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks…” to “Game over, man! Game over!”; played by the late Bill Paxton. If I remember correctly part of the issue with Hudson was his time in the Colonial Marines was almost up, he was expecting a milk-run of a final mission and the chance to liberate some colonists from their virginity. What he got was an unexpected battle to the death with an unknown and deadly enemy, even if he had been up against other humans he probably wouldn’t have reacted nearly as badly. I wonder if there is any way to use synthetic, sorry artificial person, Bishop in this scenario. He’s not exactly deadly _(if I recall correctly synthetics don’t engage directly in combat at all)_ but the Predator crew wouldn’t be anticipating a robot. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/62 "2018-10-04T02:49:52Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The level of cooperation is to some degree built during the same process that weeds people out for lack of fortitude/strength/endurance/etc. SEAL training both eliminates people who aren’t at the extremes of human fitness and mental strength and also at the same time forges a unique bond among the men who complete it together. It’s quite elegant as it is and doesn’t really need to be broken up into its components as you suggest. > > Huh, where’d you read this? I always thought that without the over the top action scene with excessive explosions and such the movie would’ve worked a lot better. To some degree that scene feels like it’s from a different movie. > > Proof of Life and Tears of the Sun come to mind as having similar, more realistic action scenes of that sort. I was going to mention Proof of Life, great scene. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/63 "2018-10-06T18:55:35Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The level of cooperation is to some degree built during the same process that weeds people out for lack of fortitude/strength/endurance/etc. SEAL training both eliminates people who aren’t at the extremes of human fitness and mental strength and also at the same time forges a unique bond among the men who complete it together. It’s quite elegant as it is and doesn’t really need to be broken up into its components as you suggest. I get why you wouldn’t want to break it up for special forces training. I guess my general question is about how much you can use selection & training to improve mental strength or bonding without needing to be at the extremes of human fitness. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Huh, where’d you read this? I always thought that without the over the top action scene with excessive explosions and such the movie would’ve worked a lot better. To some degree that scene feels like it’s from a different movie. I don’t remember if it’s from the DVD commentary or a Rob Ager video commentary, both very much worth a listen. The difference in direction is likely why it felt like a different movie. It isn’t as good as the rest of the movie, its main benefit is that it lulls the viewer into thinking it’s going to be a conventional 80s action movie, much like Arnold’s previous Commando. It’s shot very much like that movie, including the cheesy one-liners. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Proof of Life and Tears of the Sun come to mind as having similar, more realistic action scenes of that sort. Proof of life: The helicopter ingress scene is reminiscent of Predator. I liked how they conduct surveillance before attacking. The MGer’s PoV shots on the well-positioned hill are very nice. It showed the benefit of communication & cooperation. It reminded me of watching a game of ARMA with a good clan. Tears of the sun: Ingress is also handled by getting out of the tight passenger compartment of a vehicle + artificially-enhanced vision. We do get a sense that their favorite time of day and weather is raining at night because that allows them to sneak both toward and away from their opponents. They all end by getting to the chopper. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/64 "2018-10-09T13:31:04Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > If I remember correctly part of the issue with Hudson was his time in the Colonial Marines was almost up, he was expecting a milk-run of a final mission and the chance to liberate some colonists from their virginity. What he got was an unexpected battle to the death with an unknown and deadly enemy, even if he had been up against other humans he probably wouldn’t have reacted nearly as badly. > > I wonder if there is any way to use synthetic, sorry artificial person, Bishop in this scenario. He’s not exactly deadly _(if I recall correctly synthetics don’t engage directly in combat at all)_ but the Predator crew wouldn’t be anticipating a robot. It may come down to his inhibitory circuits. A synth wouldn’t be much use in a battle if he can’t harm/allow to be harmed human beings unless he could assist allied humans although that might run afoul of his internal rules. A synth placed in a battle might have difficulty resolving the dilemma between his two inhibitors which make it impossible to “harm or by omission of action allow to be harmed a human being”. Presuming the inhibitory controls are off, I wonder how a squad of synth would work. Ash didn’t really seem to know how to fight. It seems like it would have been easy for him to go into a full chimpage on Ripley and the others yet he fought like someone who thinks a deadly fight revolves around shoving. A squad of Bishops might be awfully deadly. They don’t seem all that physically strong but mentally they seem to have advantages over others. Does Bishop have any weaknesses in a fight besides the inability to harm humans? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/65 "2018-10-09T13:49:45Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > They don’t seem all that physically strong but mentally they seem to have advantages over others. Does Bishop have any weaknesses in a fight besides the inability to harm humans? Bishop wasn’t even interested in the pistol Vasquez gave him to defend against aliens. But whether that was because he was unskilled in using it or because he figured it was laughably inadequate if attacked is unstated (I assume little from both columns). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/66 "2018-10-09T15:16:27Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Bishop wasn’t even interested in the pistol Vasquez gave him to defend against aliens. But whether that was because he was unskilled in using it or because he figured it was laughably inadequate if attacked is unstated (I assume little from both columns). I think very much the latter. Given his hand-to-eye coordination in the Bill Paxton hand/knife scene, it seems unlikely he would be unskilled unless that capability was deliberately nerfed. Is there some information/canon/lore on how androids interact between each other? I note that the question Vasquez was asked: “Have you ever been mistaken for a man?” could also have been asked of Ash or Bishop. Androids could also make for a good zombie replacement as they would look even more like humans than zombies but would be nearly as expendable from an audience shock/age rating perspective because, like zombies, they’re not people, they only look like them. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/67 "2018-10-09T15:45:13Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I think very much the latter. Given his hand-to-eye coordination in the Bill Paxton hand/knife scene, it seems unlikely he would be unskilled unless that capability was deliberately nerfed. You mean when he cut himself? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/68 "2018-10-10T08:30:58Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > It may come down to his inhibitory circuits. A synth wouldn’t be much use in a battle if he can’t harm/allow to be harmed human beings unless he could assist allied humans although that might run afoul of his internal rules. A synth placed in a battle might have difficulty resolving the dilemma between his two inhibitors which make it impossible to “harm or by omission of action allow to be harmed a human being”. > > Presuming the inhibitory controls are off, I wonder how a squad of synth would work. Ash didn’t really seem to know how to fight. It seems like it would have been easy for him to go into a full chimpage on Ripley and the others yet he fought like someone who thinks a deadly fight revolves around shoving. > > A squad of Bishops might be awfully deadly. They don’t seem all that physically strong but mentally they seem to have advantages over others. Does Bishop have any weaknesses in a fight besides the inability to harm humans? I can’t recall if it was a comic or a novel but there was some reference to a squad of synthetics where WY had (illegally) removed their Asimov inhibitions, and had combat routines/training and they were beasts. Their best feature being the fact they were effectively networked together. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/69 "2018-10-10T11:07:13Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > I can’t recall if it was a comic or a novel but there was some reference to a squad of synthetics where WY had (illegally) removed their Asimov inhibitions, and had combat routines/training and they were beasts. Their best feature being the fact they were effectively networked together. If anyone else knows where this might be from, please let me know. What were the dynamics or benefits of being networked together? That’s very interesting because it’s the way real-world high-tech warfare is developing too. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/70 "2018-10-10T12:33:13Z")
Sounds like a Blade Runner crossover idea. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/71 "2018-10-10T13:31:50Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Sounds like a Blade Runner crossover idea. Yes, I just finished reading Do Androids dream of electric sheep. Bishop as the golden retriever to Roy Batty’s rottweiler. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/72 "2018-10-11T09:38:14Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If anyone else knows where this might be from, please let me know. > What were the dynamics or benefits of being networked together? That’s very interesting because it’s the way real-world high-tech warfare is developing too. This [Wiki page](http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_android) has a list (at the bottom of the page) of appearances by combat androids in various comics and video games in the Alien universe. Looking at the list, maybe I’m conflating the networking thing with another series. But to me it seems a self evident benefit that they would want to take advantage of. It’s no accident actual militaries are going down the road of heightening their soldiers situational awareness. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/73 "2018-10-11T17:42:55Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > This [Wiki page](http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_android) has a list (at the bottom of the page) of appearances by combat androids in various comics and video games in the Alien universe. > > Looking at the list, maybe I’m conflating the networking thing with another series. But to me it seems a self evident benefit that they would want to take advantage of. It’s no accident actual militaries are going down the road of heightening their soldiers situational awareness. Any guesses as to what that other series might be? Information technology is at the upper end of possibilities but I wouldn’t say it’s obvious. Discussions of military tech tend to focus on big guns, bombs and mechanical tech rather than IT. It would be nice to have a scene with an android whose arms were destroyed but still has the sensors on his head team up with an android whose sensors were destroyed/head blown off but still can use weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013/74 "2018-12-31T14:58:34Z")
**Patch** persuaded me. Go Marines! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-win-the-squad-from-predator-or-aliens/822013.md?page=3)