# Who would you pick as the Democrat nominee in '08? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643 "2005-10-03T21:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/121 "2005-10-08T20:37:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Got an example for us to interpret, then? One could interpret her public appearances with people like Newt Gingrich and Lindsey Graham as part of an effort to change her image. One could also argue that her strong positions on national defense are intended to make her seem less liberal, which (accurately or not) is how many people see her. There was also her much quoted “I believe we can all recognize that abortion in many ways represents a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women” line. I don’t think It’s particularly crazy to say she has made many efforts in the Senate to solidify her credentials as a centrist, and that she may be doing so in part to prepare herself for a run at the '08 nomination. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/122 "2005-10-08T21:21:48Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > This is what I’ve been trying to tell the Republican nutjobs around here. Hillary has never said or done \*anything \* to indicate that she wants to be President. From what I’ve heard, it took some convincing by the NY Democrats to convince her to run for the Senate. If it were only “Republican nutjobs” speculating, you and \*\*Dio \*\*might have a point. Is there a major political pundit on the left or right who, when asked about likely candidates, doesn’t mention HRC? If there is, I’ve never met one. I’ve never heard that she had to be led kicking and screaming to run in NY. Got a cite for that? Not that I think you’re making it up, I’ve just never heard anyone say that before. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/123 "2005-10-08T21:30:59Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I absolutely agree with both parts of this: indeed, my point is that **any** sort of regional rule, whether it’s “Must be Southern!” or “Must not be Southern!” is ridiculous. > > It does seem that many voters in the South have the sort of rule that you describe, and that’s stupid. But when Northern voters have a “Must not be Southern!” rule, or even inclination, that’s equally stupid. > > Vote for the best candidate, and screw the irrelevancies. > > Daniel But it’s not irrelevant. The different regions of the U.S. have markedly different political cultures. In what region a person grew up is an important factor in shaping one’s political views and thinking – only one factor among many (others include ethnic background, religion, social class, rural vs. urban vs. suburban background, and of course oersonal experience) – but it’s still a very important factor. And I think Southern political culture, which is traditionally and notably more aggressive, violence-oriented and militaristic than all of the others,\* has had way too much influence in our national councils for quite some time. **We need a break.** \*For an extensive and insightful analysis of that, see _Vietnam: The Necessary War,_ by Michael Lind – [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684870274/qid=1128806583/sr=8-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684870274/qid=1128806583/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Building on Kevin Phillips’ analysis of regional cultures in _The Cousins’ Wars_ ([[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465013708/qid=1128806852/sr=8-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846/url](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465013708/qid=1128806852/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846/url)]), as well as _Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America_ by David Hackett Fischer ([http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195069056/qid=1128806896/sr=2-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_b\_2\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195069056/qid=1128806896/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books)), Lind cites extensive statistics showing that from the War of 1812 onwards, Southerners have been much more willing than other Americans to support a war, regardless of what the war is about or whether it tends to benefit the South’s regional economic interests in any way. Southerners are also more sympathetic to the idea of using violence to defend insults to “honor,” and their commission of violent crimes generally, including domestic violence, is higher than other regions’. And Lind makes out a case that the violent culture of urban African-Americans all over the country can be attributed, at least in part, to their culture’s Southern roots. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/124 "2005-10-08T21:33:05Z")
Sorry, let me fix that: \*For an extensive and insightful analysis of that, see _Vietnam: The Necessary War,_ by Michael Lind – [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684870274/qid=1128806583/sr=8-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684870274/qid=1128806583/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Building on Kevin Phillips’ analysis of regional cultures in _The Cousins’ Wars_ ([[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465013708/qid=1128806852/sr=8-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465013708/qid=1128806852/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)), as well as _Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America_ by David Hackett Fischer ([http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195069056/qid=1128806896/sr=2-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_b\_2\_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195069056/qid=1128806896/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-1125863-1526510?v=glance&s=books)), Lind cites extensive statistics showing that from the War of 1812 onwards, Southerners have been much more willing than other Americans to support a war, regardless of what the war is about or whether it tends to benefit the South’s regional economic interests in any way. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/125 "2005-10-08T21:57:12Z")
I think Southerners would vote for a midwesterner. I think the candidate just has to be a moderate. I could see Evan Bayh getting some play in the South. Especially in states like Tennessee and Arkansas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/126 "2005-10-09T01:42:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But it’s not irrelevant. The different regions of the U.S. have markedly different political cultures. In what region a person grew up is an important factor in shaping one’s political views and thinking – only one factor among many (others include ethnic background, religion, social class, rural vs. urban vs. suburban background, and of course oersonal experience) – but it’s still a very important factor. And I think Southern political culture, which is traditionally and notably more aggressive, violence-oriented and militaristic than all of the others,\* has had way too much influence in our national councils for quite some time. **We need a break.** Do you believe that all Southerners more militaristic, aggressive, and violence-oriented than all Northerners? If so, the nonsense runs deeper than I thought. If not, would you vote for one of the more aggressive Northerners over a less aggressive Southerner, simply because Southerners tend to be more aggressive in your theory? If so, the nonsense runs amazingly deep. If not–if you would vote for the less agressive Southerner over the more aggressive Northerner–then you’re voting based on something important and principled, not based on the irrelevancy of which region the politician comes from; and we’re in agreement. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![hendersonjustin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecc23a/32.png) [@hendersonjustin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hendersonjustin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/127 "2005-10-09T03:23:15Z")
I am hoping that Evan Bayh get’s a chance. What I’m afraid we’ll see is a race between Hillary and Rice. Wait a minute, Ive changed my mind, I’m voting for Oprah!! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/128 "2005-10-09T16:01:42Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Do you believe that all Southerners more militaristic, aggressive, and violence-oriented than all Northerners? Of course not. Generalizations of that kind, even when valid, can never be applied with certainty to particular individuals. I’m a nonviolent Southerner myself. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > If not, would you vote for one of the more aggressive Northerners over a less aggressive Southerner, simply because Southerners tend to be more aggressive in your theory? Other things being equal, no. Do you have any specific politicians in mind? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/129 "2005-10-09T16:03:11Z")
> [@hendersonjustin](#): > > What I’m afraid we’ll see is a race between Hillary and Rice. Why are you “afraid” of that? Sounds like the one matchup where Hillary could actually be sure of winning. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/130 "2005-10-09T16:46:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why are you “afraid” of that? Sounds like the one matchup where Hillary could actually be sure of winning. 🙂 My fear is the pig-wallowing filth we’d have to deal with during an HRC run for the Presidency. Couple that to the inevitalbe Uncle-Tom ugliness a Rice run would elicit, and you’ve got a whole lot of undiluted nastyness that would rise like feces to the surface of our already fetid political discourse. There really wouldn’t be any winners. It’s not a fight worth having. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/131 "2005-10-09T21:15:44Z")
I have to disagree, but maybe I still have too much faith in my fellow citizens. The Hillary-bashing has all been done to death. There are no minds left to change against her, and no new information that can be applied. It’s all been done. Any change in her approval can only be upward, not downward, and it’s already in decent shape. Any further sliming of her can only backfire on the GOP, and their stature is in the dumps right now as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/132 "2005-10-09T21:18:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > st her, and no new information that can be applied. It’s all been done. I bet John Kerry thought the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/133 "2005-10-09T21:51:06Z")
Okay, you got me there. But in fairness, Kerry was largely unknown outside MA before the campaign, and there was an opportunity for his opposition to define him to undecided voters. HRC is a known, or at least established, quantity nationwide - the opportunity for her (hypothetical) opposition to create or change opinions about her to their benefit mostly isn’t there. Not that I’m necessarily advocating her as the nominee, but it would be at least entertaining to watch them try it anyway - and they would of course; it’s all they know. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/134 "2005-10-09T23:44:50Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > My fear is the pig-wallowing filth we’d have to deal with during an HRC run for the Presidency. Couple that to the inevitalbe Uncle-Tom ugliness a Rice run would elicit, and you’ve got a whole lot of undiluted nastyness that would rise like feces to the surface of our already fetid political discourse. Sounds like jolly good fun! Let’s wallow in it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/135 "2005-10-10T04:13:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Other things being equal, no. Do you have any specific politicians in mind? Not especially–but that’s not the point. If you would vote for a Southerner with whom you substantively agree, then you seem to be taking a different approach from your earlier post, and it’s one with which I substantively agree myself. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/136 "2005-10-10T07:00:10Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Not especially–but that’s not the point. If you would vote for a Southerner with whom you substantively agree, then you seem to be taking a different approach from your earlier post, and it’s one with which I substantively agree myself. > > Daniel But the broader points remains. Southern political culture is **fucking sick,** and the country needs at least a brief respite from it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/137 "2005-10-10T11:49:39Z")
Well, so is Chicago political culture. New York political culture _was_, but Guliani kind of tore that up for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/138 "2005-10-10T11:55:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the broader points remains. Southern political culture is **fucking sick,** and the country needs at least a brief respite from it. Jesus Christ. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/139 "2005-10-10T13:31:44Z")
Yes, he’s a large part of the problem. Or at least, people professing to know exactly what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643/140 "2005-10-10T13:38:14Z")
Looks like LHOD is proposing Jesus Christ as the Democratic nominee. I dunno; the slime machine could have a lot of fun with his consorting with prostitutes as well as that hard-socialist sermon on the mount thing. Who’s gonna contribute big bucks to his campaign if he keeps telling them that rich people will have a hard time getting into heaven? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-pick-as-the-democrat-nominee-in-08/324643.md?page=8)