# Who would you Rank lowest among the six previous Presidents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947 "2014-06-29T17:27:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/41 "2014-06-30T18:05:41Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > I disagree with you on Bush’s leadership, realistically the Democrats lacked a strong consensus on the war and defunding it could’ve proved politically disastrous for them. Bush was a weak leader, but he did have strong leaders within the senior ranks of his administration. He surrounded himself with talent – in much the same way that a hole surrounds itself with doughnut. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/42 "2014-06-30T18:19:43Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > he was at times given to carlessness > [@Ludovic](#): > > You’re thinking of Al Gore 🙂 Nope. Ed Begley, Jr. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/43 "2014-06-30T18:55:40Z")
Carter was pretty useless, but The Shrub was just plain evil _and_ incompetent. His Dad was a decent prez. Some aspects of Reagan’s’ legacy are pretty nasty, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/44 "2014-06-30T19:05:03Z")
I find it fascinating that in the parallel threads, the top choice for best and for worst is around two thirds of those voting. Equally, each hovers near the bottom of the other poll, with zero votes for Buch as best and only 2 of 180+ for Clinton as worst, (one of which was explicitly an error, so really only one). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/45 "2014-06-30T19:15:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It has to be _good_ reasoning. > > Regards, > Shodan Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/46 "2014-06-30T19:17:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Carter was pretty useless, but The Shrub was just plain evil _and_ incompetent. His Dad was a decent prez. > > Some aspects of Reagan’s’ legacy are pretty nasty, tho. I love how GWB’s detractors will call him a bumbling fool and an evil mastermind all in the same breath! Such are the wonders of Derangement Syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/47 "2014-06-30T19:22:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It has to be _good_ reasoning. > > Regards, > Shodan Huh? Are you saying Reagan’s support for apartheid SA was fine? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/48 "2014-06-30T19:22:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which do you think was the most horrifying injury he did the country? Was it reducing both the poverty rate, and the number of US citizens living in poverty? Cutting inflation? Triggering the longest peacetime expansion of the US economy in history? Eliminating intermediate range nuclear missiles in Europe? Setting the stage to win the Cold War? Reducing unemployment? Getting the Iranian hostages set free? > > The unreasoning hatred of the lefties for Reagan is as grotesque as it is unfounded. I should be used to it by now, but I suppose I never will be. > > Regards, > Shodan 1. Pushing the Soviet Union towards a total collapse rather than gradual economic and political liberalization. Things in the Soviet Union and its satellites needed to change, but the collapse of the Soviet Union (as it happened) was an enormous humanitarian disaster in terms of economics, health care, education, nutrition, inequality, life expectancy, you name it. 2. Undermining the FSLN government in Nicaragua, largely through proxies that engaged in terrorism and sabotage. 3. Supporting death-squad regimes in Guatemala and El Salvador. That’s enough for a start, I think. But I think we can credit rising economic inequality here at home in part to Reagan, as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/49 "2014-06-30T19:23:39Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I love how GWB’s detractors will call him a bumbling fool and an evil mastermind all in the same breath! Such are the wonders of Derangement Syndrome. Where does it say mastermind in that quote? Do you think stupid people can’t be evil? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/50 "2014-06-30T19:25:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > 1. Pushing the Soviet Union towards a total collapse rather than gradual economic and political liberalization. Things in the Soviet Union and its satellites needed to change, but the collapse of the Soviet Union (as it happened) was an enormous humanitarian disaster in terms of economics, health care, education, nutrition, inequality, life expectancy, you name it. I think this gives Reagan WAY too much credit. There is no evidence that the USSR attempted to match the US in its runaway defense spending under Reagan and it’s much more likely that it would have collapsed in roughly the same time frame no matter who was president. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/51 "2014-06-30T19:42:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The OP is asking contradictory things. I voted Bush, Jr. because his Presidency caused the most damage to the country. However in no way can one say he had inept leadership. I agree. His leadership strengths increased the damage he did. He was terribly effective at pursuing his agenda (or whatever agenda Cheney talked him into.) > [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > 1. GWB: It’s a case of where do you start? A man completely unsuited to the job, launched two lengthy a costly wars that achieved the opposite of what they wanted to achieve. Alienated America’s allies and entrenched their enemies. Presided over the worst global crash since the Great Depression, whose genesis can be linked to the policies of his administration. Failed miserably in response to the challenges of his presidency (e.g. Hurricane Katrina). Oversaw a decline in the USA’s global dominance. I can’t think of anything he did which could said to be an acheivement. > > 2. Carter: on paper the perfect presidential candidate, but ultimately his handling of the challenges of his presidency were underwhelming > > 3. Reagan: perhaps the worse charge you can bring against Reagan is that he ushered in policies that wouldn’t prove to be so much disastrous in his own time, but which would be the genesis of major future problems. More about style than substance, he did though manage to achieve a few things purely by style. > > 4. Obama: Inherited a country with a weak economy, declining international influence, engaged in a hopeless war and was hamstrung by an extremely belligerent and obstructionist political opposition. However his cautious, middle ground-finding approach has not been particularly effective in tackling the myriad of problems he inherited. He still has time to make a difference, but I’m not hopeful. > > 5. GHB: In many ways the antithesis of Reagan: a safe pair of hands who was pragmatic in his policy and was more about substance than style. However the fact that he couldn’t get the style bit right cost him on a few occasions. > > 6. Bill Clinton: a man of both style and substance who achieved a significant amount. That was not to say he was perfect as he was at times given to carlessness, which saw him occasionally manufacture political scandal for himself. Nice summary. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > By surviving a full two terms, he single-handedly kept Dick Cheney from being President. LOL. Good point! > [@Shodan](#): > > Carter, obviously. Iran, Afghanistan, stagflation, the botched hostage rescue attempt, the misery index, etc., etc. Problems he didn’t create. Furthermore, he did the best possible thing regarding the economy (though admittedly, late in his administration), which was to appoint Volcker as Chairman of the Fed, knowing that it would cause short-term economic hardship for a long term gain. He says they knew it worked against his re-election but they thought they could overcome it. I give him extra credit for doing what was right rather than what would improve his chances in the next election. However, I do think that Carter showed us that it’s nearly impossible to be a decent thoughtful person and an effective President. He pursued the course of moderation and reason with Iran, which IMHO was a mistake. I shudder to think of the alternative, though. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/52 "2014-06-30T20:21:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fuck you. This is a warning for you. You know not to use phrases like these to other posters by now. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/53 "2014-06-30T20:26:52Z")
As you say. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/54 "2014-06-30T22:06:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? Are you saying Reagan’s support for apartheid SA was fine? Liberals have always lost their bearings when it comes to South Africa. All of a sudden, all the normal ways liberals handle bad regimes goes out the window and they start going all neocon. So let’s be clear here: as a general rule, if the US fails to sanction a regime, is the US responsible for extending its life? Are sanctions generally a good tool to change the behavior of regimes the world doesn’t approve of? And if so, why the opposition to sanctions against some of the world’s bad actors, like Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/55 "2014-06-30T22:10:23Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > However, I do think that Carter showed us that it’s nearly impossible to be a decent thoughtful person and an effective President. He pursued the course of moderation and reason with Iran, which IMHO was a mistake. I shudder to think of the alternative, though. Carter’s decency has always been overrated. He had a nasty streak which came out in the 1980 campaign and he could be remarkably callous towards our allies while trying to improve relations with our enemies. Daniel Patrick Moynihan said about Carter: “Unable to distinguish between our friends and our enemies, he has essentially adopted our enemies’ view of the world.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/56 "2014-06-30T22:41:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which do you think was the most horrifying injury he did the country? Was it reducing both the poverty rate, and the number of US citizens living in poverty? Of course, he first _increased_ the number of people in poverty by 3.5 million, before eventually getting that number back down to just 300,000 under where it had been in March 1981. Compared to an alternate universe where the number of people in poverty remained constant, Reagan was responsible for an additional 9.7 person-years of people in poverty. OTOH, Clinton reduced the number of people in poverty _by 6.4 million_, and against our hypothetical of a constant number of people in poverty, Clinton was responsible for 35.5 million fewer person-years of people in poverty. > [@](#): > > Cutting inflation? So did Clinton and Obama. > [@](#): > > Triggering the longest peacetime expansion of the US economy in history? That was Clinton. > [@](#): > > Eliminating intermediate range nuclear missiles in Europe? He’s hardly the only President to negotiate an arms reduction treaty with Russia. > [@](#): > > Setting the stage to win the Cold War? How, exactly? > [@](#): > > Reducing unemployment? Only after taking teh unemployment rate up to 10.8%. Again, measured in person-months of unemployment over his Administration, compared with a constant unemployment rate, this is basically a break-even. > [@](#): > > Getting the Iranian hostages set free? They were on their way out of Iran while Carter was still President. But that’s never stopped conservatives from taking credit. > [@](#): > > The unreasoning hatred of the lefties for Reagan is as grotesque as it is unfounded. I should be used to it by now, but I suppose I never will be. Through union-busting and tax policy, Reagan laid the foundation for the tremendous inequality of wealth we have today. He was all for defense buildups beyond what we could possibly use, but tried to redefine ketchup as a vegetable to save money on school lunches for poor kids. (What a guy!) He sold arms to Iran. His idea of how to fight the Cold War was to prop up thugs like Roberto D’Aubisson and Jonas Savimbi. Every last one of Obama’s supposed excesses of exercising power pales by comparison with Reagan’s violation of the Boland Amendment that was supposed to keep us out of Nicaragua. And how about our hundreds of dead troops in Lebanon, and our cut-and-run after that? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/57 "2014-06-30T22:59:49Z")
Reagan’s record isn’t perfect, but he did something not seen since FDR: he fundamentally changed the debate. We’ve had two Democratic Presidents win two terms each since Reagan, and both have had to govern as centrists to eke out victories, or at least promise to be centrists. Thanks to Reagan, we live in a center-right country and there is no prospect of that changing on the horizon. FDR’s vision of America was dominant for 48 years. So I figure the Reagan Revolution still has another 14. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/58 "2014-06-30T23:17:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Reagan’s record isn’t perfect, but he did something not seen since FDR: he fundamentally changed the debate. We’ve had two Democratic Presidents win two terms each since Reagan, and both have had to govern as centrists to eke out victories, or at least promise to be centrists. Thanks to Reagan, we live in a center-right country and there is no prospect of that changing on the horizon. FDR’s vision of America was dominant for 48 years. So I figure the Reagan Revolution still has another 14. We don’t live in a center-right country – that’s a meaningless punditry phrase. By definition, the “average” political position of Americans is the center. On social issues, the center has moved way to the left since Reagan’s time – and economic issues have stayed about the same in the long run. Reagan did change the debate, and he changed a lot of things – but not in a good way (in my opinion), for the most part. He’s responsible for the “tax cuts” policy focus… the idea that pretty much everything can be solved by tax cuts, and taxes _should always be cut_. Somehow, according to this philosophy, tax cuts always increase revenue, and there are never any consequences. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/59 "2014-06-30T23:30:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Reagan’s record isn’t perfect, but he did something not seen since FDR: he fundamentally changed the debate. We’ve had two Democratic Presidents win two terms each since Reagan, and both have had to govern as centrists to eke out victories, or at least promise to be centrists. \*\*Thanks to Reagan, we live in a center-right country \*\*and there is no prospect of that changing on the horizon. FDR’s vision of America was dominant for 48 years. So I figure the Reagan Revolution still has another 14. To the extent that this is accurate, that’s the problem. We need to be a center-left country, and Reagan fucked that up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947/60 "2014-06-30T23:44:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > To the extent that this is accurate, that’s the problem. We need to be a center-left country, and Reagan fucked that up. It’s not accurate; it’s just silly pundit speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-would-you-rank-lowest-among-the-six-previous-presidents/691947.md?page=4)