# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/201 "2013-11-10T04:18:29Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Actually God doesn’t give any physical indication that he exists. So how does he ‘work’? > > You seem incredibly confused about science. > Science does not create chemical reactions; it observes and predicts accurately how they will occur. > Science does not create eclipses, but it does allow us to predict them. > The Internet could only have happened with scientific method. > Scientific theory changes with new evidence; Gods never change (since there’s no evidence for them.) > > Can your guide put satellites in space and thus create a world-wide telephone network? > Can your guide eliminate diseases world-wide (like science did with smallpox?) According to an earlier thread - his guide would turn the tree in front of my house into a rock - if I thought on it long enough and called someone to take the tree and replace it with a rock. His guide works in mysterious ways And I still have a tree. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/202 "2013-11-10T04:33:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When I experience something I know I experience something. I have no need to test the experience. And this is exactly why you will continue to spout nonsense and no one will take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/203 "2013-11-10T05:10:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > In addition to what others have said about this: > > (2) What people thought was demon possession was really something else, like mental illness or epilepsy. That’s what I believe. (And I’m a liberal Christian who very much believes in God, the Son and the Holy Ghost). ---
**Author:** ![RedTailedHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d6d6ee/32.png) [@RedTailedHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedTailedHawk)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/204 "2013-11-10T09:24:25Z")
The James Randi Educational Foundation offers a million dollars to “anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.” Anyone may apply at [http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html](http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) . Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/205 "2013-11-10T10:23:47Z")
This thread was a lot better when **thepillar** was still around. I miss that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/206 "2013-11-10T12:13:19Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I know what the scientific method is I just don’t believe in it any more than I believe in the Bible. I am not a devotee of some belief system. Yes I can explain the world in spiritual terms and concepts rationally. The field of spiritually is very large with many facets. It takes years to study it and understand it. There is a shortcut but it was rejected here very quickly. I welcome you to spend a few days without the scientific method. First step: take everything out of your life that the scientific method gave you. This will have the unfortunate side-effect of you not being able to give us a running log of what you’re doing, as you will no longer have a computer, but we will live with it. You’ll have to leave your house, obviously. No tents - at least modern ones - as they’re built to be stable, warm, safe, and lightweight. No electric anything. Stay off the roads, stay away from cities whose architecture and zoning was built with scientific principles. Maybe then you’ll understand why so many of us hold the scientific method up as the number one most important thought process in the history of humanity. > [@Steken](#): > > This thread was a lot better when **thepillar** was still around. > > I miss that guy. Yeah, **All Lekatt All The Time** gets boring real quick. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/207 "2013-11-10T13:47:48Z")
I am reasonably certain about what ghosts are supposed to look like (white/luminous images of people. But what do demons look like? Everybody mentions them, but there are no representations of what they are supposed to look like. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/208 "2013-11-10T16:54:23Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I am reasonably certain about what ghosts are supposed to look like (white/luminous images of people. > But what do demons look like? Everybody mentions them, but there are no representations of what they are supposed to look like. According to the Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual, they look like this: > **[Wizards of the Coast](https://company.wizards.com/en)** > > Wizards of the Coast is a family of studios specializing in building role playing, trading card, and digital games for all genres of players. And this: > **[Wizards of the Coast](https://company.wizards.com/en)** > > Wizards of the Coast is a family of studios specializing in building role playing, trading card, and digital games for all genres of players. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/209 "2013-11-10T17:12:10Z")
Ah, so _that’s_ who you call. Gygax. Shame he died. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/210 "2013-11-10T17:15:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > By what means, though? > > I mean, if someone hands me an apple and asks me if it’s an elephant, I can say no because they wouldn’t be able to hand me an elephant, or because it’s not grey, or because it’s not trumpeting, etc. How are you determining that i’m not you? What are you judging? Would it not be self-evident. There is space between you and me, we don’t look alike, if you have a headache I do not. Come on explain yourself. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/211 "2013-11-10T17:24:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is precisely the point when Feynman mentions the big chance that then we can fool ourselves. > > I can be amazed at seeing insect critters in the morning (it has happened a few times to me), but after I experimented further I found that it was some stuff floating in my eyes and my brain filling in the details during sleep paralysis, luckily I also have some ability on lucid dreaming so those apparitions became less scary after I figured out how to move during those paralysis events and “crush” the critters, found out that indeed they were in my mind and in eye particles and I made them fade away and less common and frightening. > > Investigating further showed that those hallucinations are common: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/opinion/sunday/seeing-things-hearing-things-many-of-us-do.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/opinion/sunday/seeing-things-hearing-things-many-of-us-do.html?_r=0) > > It would be indeed very comforting for your point of view if we where in the middle ages, but unfortunately for you we are not there anymore. You are trying to say I am hallucinating, which is false. Totally false. I have acted on the information from spirit and it worked fine. I know what I saw. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/212 "2013-11-10T17:26:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As Tim Minchin can tell you, your point here has already been tried many times before and only demonstrates more ignorance: > > [http://www.maxilyrics.com/tim-minchin-storm-lyrics-5586.html](http://www.maxilyrics.com/tim-minchin-storm-lyrics-5586.html) I don’t act on faith I act on knowing. I don’t use those words either because they are sophomoric. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/213 "2013-11-10T17:37:37Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Actually God doesn’t give any physical indication that he exists. So how does he ‘work’? > > You seem incredibly confused about science. > Science does not create chemical reactions; it observes and predicts accurately how they will occur. > Science does not create eclipses, but it does allow us to predict them. > The Internet could only have happened with scientific method. > Scientific theory changes with new evidence; Gods never change (since there’s no evidence for them.) > > Can your guide put satellites in space and thus create a world-wide telephone network? > Can your guide eliminate diseases world-wide (like science did with smallpox?) God does show His existence in the phtsical in many ways. I did not say science created those things but they can be observed by anyone. It does not take a scientist to do so. You say science adjusts its beliefs well there have been millions of near death experiences, ghost shightings, UFO sightings, etc. for hundreds of years and the best science can say is that they are all just delusions or hallucinations because science don’t believe in that kind of stuff. Science just keeps making up explanations, excuses, and full denial of these events. You open your eyes. You are like a man in a brilliantly lit room with his eyes closed tight asking someone to turn on the light. Just open your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/214 "2013-11-10T17:39:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > And this is exactly why you will continue to spout nonsense and no one will take you seriously. Millions of people take me seriously, just not a small percentage of scientists. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/215 "2013-11-10T17:43:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I welcome you to spend a few days without the scientific method. First step: take everything out of your life that the scientific method gave you. This will have the unfortunate side-effect of you not being able to give us a running log of what you’re doing, as you will no longer have a computer, but we will live with it. You’ll have to leave your house, obviously. No tents - at least modern ones - as they’re built to be stable, warm, safe, and lightweight. No electric anything. Stay off the roads, stay away from cities whose architecture and zoning was built with scientific principles. Maybe then you’ll understand why so many of us hold the scientific method up as the number one most important thought process in the history of humanity. > > Yeah, **All Lekatt All The Time** gets boring real quick. ☹ Total nonsense, people have had houses and the other things before science was ever heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/216 "2013-11-10T18:07:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Would it not be self-evident. There is space between you and me, we don’t look alike, if you have a headache I do not. Come on explain yourself. What basis do you have for claiming these things? You don’t know what I look like, where I am, or if I have a headache or not. If you’re basing “it is self-evident” on three things that you do not know, i’m not entirely sure “self-evident” means what you think it means. So, again; on what basis am I not you? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/217 "2013-11-10T18:37:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I know what I saw. Repeating that doesn’t help. No one here has any confidence that your interpretation is reality-based. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/218 "2013-11-10T19:02:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > God does show His existence in the phtsical in many ways. > > I did not say science created those things but they can be observed by anyone. It does not take a scientist to do so. You say science adjusts its beliefs well there have been millions of near death experiences, ghost shightings, UFO sightings, etc. for hundreds of years and the best science can say is that they are all just delusions or hallucinations because science don’t believe in that kind of stuff. > > Science just keeps making up explanations, excuses, and full denial of these events. You open your eyes. You are like a man in a brilliantly lit room with his eyes closed tight asking someone to turn on the light. Just open your eyes. No religion claims that God reveals himself physically. Of course everyone can observe eclipses etc. That’s the basis of science. We can all see it. The scientific predictions work. Every time. Faith and religion are where only the believers see things. Yes, there have been many reports of UFOs, Ghosts, Fairies, Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot etc. However there still is no physical evidence for any of them. Also almost all these sightings turn out to be mistakes, something natural or hoaxes. Science would happily accept these things if there was any evidence. Science doesn’t deny anything - it just states there’s no evidence, there’s no reason to believe in it at present. Looking back to an earlier post of yours: if you don’t accept that the scientific method led to computers (and just about every other thing we use), then we’ll just have to disagree and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/219 "2013-11-10T19:14:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are trying to say I am hallucinating, which is false. Totally false. I have acted on the information from spirit and it worked fine. I know what I saw. It worked fine for me too, although you decided to accept what your brain told you and not what one could do to avoid being fooled by it. The point was in any case that you were totally wrong on not being capable on testing this, I could test it, and so can you as you are claiming now that you can get results from following you r spirit; but what I conclude is that you are very afraid of testing properly if the spirit will work fine under conditions that are not just limited to your brain. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/220 "2013-11-10T19:18:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t act on faith I act on knowing. I don’t use those words either because they are sophomoric. Sorry, you already used words that can be used in a dictionary as the definition of sophomoric: “You do worship science as others would God”. That was a very ignorant attempt to discredit others that look at science to investigate claims like yours and it was a very old and fallacious point too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=12)