# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/241 "2013-11-11T17:48:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Millions of people take me seriously, just not a small percentage of scientists. I’m not putting you down lekatt. I love you. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe there is a real world and a spirit world, but proving it to this world is not going to happen. That’s what this thread is about proving it or “Who are you going to call”? I have had a vision, okay it was just a projected thought lol (to keep the unbelievers at bay) I see you at your desk at your keyboard with your monitor in front of you typing away what you sincerely believe is the truth, but on the other side I see the others in this thread like Czarcasm, but not limited to just him, reading what you have posted and jumping on it as soon as they can type in their password to post. They thrive on you, they feed on your post, you humor them, they parry with you, they even try to make sense of your post and point out the differences in opinion’s asking for proof, asking for cites. Hang in there, be humble, if you believe in the Lord Jesus … let him give you the answers. Oswald Chambers said, “Don’t let any experience or emotion come between you and your Lord Jesus Christ” This board (straight dope) recognizes your right to believe … they just taught you to prove your belief’s. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/242 "2013-11-11T17:51:54Z")
**Lekatt** , have you ever seen an optical illusion? I get the feeling you would look at [=optical%20illusions&filters[primary]=images&sort=1&o=122"]this picture]([Photobucket | Make your memories fun!](http://media.photobucket.com/user/solodad30741/media/optical%20illusions/867c.jpg.html?filters)[term) and assume that the lines are bent, just as we all would the first time we see the picture. However when the scientist explains that the lines are parallel and it’s the contextual figures around the lines that make them appear to be bent through our human eyes, I get the feeling you will still insist that the lines are bent. That is the experience you had, and science can’t disprove it. At least that’s how I see it. You want to use your personal accounts as evidence, and the scientist wants to remove the experience from the surrounding context and see if it holds up. And that seems to be your biggest problem with science, but it’s also the only way we can see that the lines are actually straight. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/243 "2013-11-11T20:09:58Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > **Lekatt** , have you ever seen an optical illusion? I get the feeling you would look at [=optical%20illusions&filters[primary]=images&sort=1&o=122"]this picture]([Photo Storage](http://media.photobucket.com/user/solodad30741/media/optical%20illusions/867c.jpg.html?filters)[term) and assume that the lines are bent, just as we all would the first time we see the picture. However when the scientist explains that the lines are parallel and it’s the contextual figures around the lines that make them appear to be bent through our human eyes, I get the feeling you will still insist that the lines are bent. That is the experience you had, and science can’t disprove it. > > At least that’s how I see it. You want to use your personal accounts as evidence, and the scientist wants to remove the experience from the surrounding context and see if it holds up. And that seems to be your biggest problem with science, but it’s also the only way we can see that the lines are actually straight. I majored in psychology in college and I know all those spacial and optical tricks. I don’t know why people think because they didn’t experience it that it must not be there. I did volunteer work at a Hospice and when a person takes his last breath many acknowledge seeing beautiful scenery. Then science debauches that beautiful moment by trying to explain it away. My mother saw and talked to my grandma at her death, then turned to me and said I won’t be coming home take good care of my grandchildren. You will know someday. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/244 "2013-11-11T20:15:19Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I’m not putting you down lekatt. I love you. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe there is a real world and a spirit world, but proving it to this world is not going to happen. That’s what this thread is about proving it or “Who are you going to call”? > > I have had a vision, okay it was just a projected thought lol (to keep the unbelievers at bay) > > I see you at your desk at your keyboard with your monitor in front of you typing away what you sincerely believe is the truth, but on the other side I see the others in this thread like Czarcasm, but not limited to just him, reading what you have posted and jumping on it as soon as they can type in their password to post. > > They thrive on you, they feed on your post, you humor them, they parry with you, they even try to make sense of your post and point out the differences in opinion’s asking for proof, asking for cites. > > Hang in there, be humble, if you believe in the Lord Jesus … let him give you the answers. Oswald Chambers said, “Don’t let any experience or emotion come between you and your Lord Jesus Christ” > > This board (straight dope) recognizes your right to believe … they just taught you to prove your belief’s. Fair enough? I am a follower of Jesus but I am not a Christian. What you say here is mostly correct. Thank you for your post. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/245 "2013-11-11T20:23:55Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I majored in psychology in college and I know all those spacial and optical tricks. I don’t know why people think because they didn’t experience it that it must not be there. I did volunteer work at a Hospice and when a person takes his last breath many acknowledge seeing beautiful scenery. Then science debauches that beautiful moment by trying to explain it away. > My mother saw and talked to my grandma at her death, then turned to me and said I won’t be coming home take good care of my grandchildren. > > You will know someday. Got anything to say about the thread topic? You keep pushing these off-topic anecdotes-is it because if you can convince anyone here that any of your side excursions into woo have a shred of evidence, it somehow counts as evidence for any and/or all other woo, such as ghosts, demons and evil spirits? Just because it’s a package deal for you doesn’t mean it is for anyone else here, so you might want to attack this a little more directly. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/246 "2013-11-11T20:24:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Joel makes it clear where he stands in this video. I think it is the best one he has made so far. I have watched it many times and each time it raises my state of awareness. Listen carefully you may find yourself in it. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoeUcU9ltfs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoeUcU9ltfs) Frankly, the initial first impression is not a good one - he has understanding of unconditional love that he wishes to share, and… it’s all yours for $9.99? I guess “unconditional” isn’t including the condition of “Pay me first”. Really, this video suggests to me that you and I are both much finer quality of people, given that we’re willing to share what we think without charging a few bucks per post. Anyway, literally all i’ve done is google him briefly, and his wikipedia page brings up [two](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/joel-osteen-being-gay-is-a-sin-fox-news_n_1471247.html) [examples](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/29/televangelist-joel-osteen-on-the-power-of-twitter-and-same-sex-marriage/)of him declaring homosexuality a sin. Are you suggesting, perhaps, that to believe an action is sinful does not mean that you think badly of those who willingly sin in that way? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/247 "2013-11-11T20:26:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t know why people think because they didn’t experience it that it must not be there. And I don’t know why you think this rhetorical technique is effective. It’s smarmy and off-putting. Your experience is beside the point, and you can’t score points in a discussion like this merely by claiming you have superior experience. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/248 "2013-11-11T21:39:21Z")
> [@Simon\_Templar\_1](#): > > The “bad English” was intentional. It’s how the song goes that I was quoting. The theme song from the 1984 movie “Ghostbusters” by Ray Parker Jr. > > I guess only us old geezers remember that. 🙂 I missed that one, sorry. Oh I saw the movie, but I didn’t remember the theme song. This might not be proof, but it’s among the best of the believe it or not population in America. The theme of your question “Is there any proof”? Probably not, no poopy trails for ghost, but I bet if your were to walk through any North American Indian grave yard you would believe in ghost by the time you got home. Here’s my contribution to believe it or not (which I know you won’t), but these things along with aliens and UFO’s sure make a lot of money, uh? This reportedly happened back in the 1930’s or 1940’s in Texas [http://www.legendsofamerica.com/tx-ghostlychildren.html](http://www.legendsofamerica.com/tx-ghostlychildren.html) > [@](#): > > According to the legend, it was a rainy Texas morning as the train moved swiftly down the tracks when the engineer spied a school bus stalled along his path. Frantically pulling his break and tugging on the train whistle, the hulking engine quickly advanced toward the school bus, unable to stop in time. Ten children reportedly lost their lives that day and continue to haunt the area, protecting others from a similar fate. I like this part, but it would be too easy to fool someone with hand prints. > [@](#): > > As the story goes, if you park your car directly over the tracks and shift into neutral, the ghosts of the children will push it uphill, out of the way of any oncoming train. And if you have the foresight to cover your bumper with baby powder or flour, you can reportedly see the children’s fingerprints upon your car. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/249 "2013-11-11T21:44:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > The theme of your question “Is there any proof”? Probably not, no poopy trails for ghost, but I bet if your were to walk through any North American Indian grave yard you would believe in ghost by the time you got home. Why Native Americans specifically? Isn’t that just stereotyping or exoticism or something? I was in a cemetery not two weeks ago - Jewish, not Native American - and I think ghosts are just as stupid as I did three weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/250 "2013-11-11T22:07:52Z")
Snopes has a page on the incident you reference, **Mr Quatro** > **[San Antonio Ghost Children](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-antonio-ghost-tracks/)** > > Do the protective little ghosts of children killed at a railway crossing push stalled cars off the tracks? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/251 "2013-11-11T22:10:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think the reason why one has to reach for the Dungeon and Dragons Manual to see how they looked like is that the old time religions have punted on the idea of how they are supposed to look (Yes, there is a popular idea of how demons look, but that is not what the defenders of the faith think) Yeaaah, I think the general consensus amongst “old time religions” is that demons do not “look” any way at all - for they are (believed to be) incorporeal beings. They can, however, temporarily appear in a physical or semi-physical shape. The possibilities here are very great. The relevant Bible verse is 2 Corinthians 11:14: > [@](#): > > And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into [or: disguises himself as, appears as] an angel of light. Or, as King James VI of Scotland put it: > [@](#): > > … the Diuel is permitted at som-times to put himself in the liknes of the Saintes, it is plaine in the Scriptures, where it is said, that Sathan can transforme himselfe into an Angell of light. So, damn, the bad guy - and, by extension, his legions - can even _look good_, in both senses of the word, and appear as saints, angels, holy men and other worthies. For example, Cornelius a Lapide explained that demons might appear in the form of Abraham, Simeon Stylites, Pachomius, Heron, Valens or even Jesus Christ himself (!); and the story of Peter of Verona (a.k.a. St. Peter Martyr) includes a bit where a demon appears in the form of the Virgin Mary. Anything goes, bruv. Be careful out there. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/252 "2013-11-11T22:13:20Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Here’s my contribution to believe it or not (which I know you won’t), but these things along with aliens and UFO’s sure make a lot of money, uh? > > This reportedly happened back in the 1930’s or 1940’s in Texas > > [http://www.legendsofamerica.com/tx-ghostlychildren.html](http://www.legendsofamerica.com/tx-ghostlychildren.html) > I like this part, but it would be too easy to fool someone with hand prints. Wow-you actually managed to one-down _lekatt’s_ “evidence” of personal experiences-you give us a “legend” that the people of that website make absolutely no effort to check out as evidence of ghosts. > [@](#): > > Reportedly, this is the site of a fatal accident in which a train collided with a school bus full of children in the 1930s or 1940s They couldn’t even bother to check out if such an accident even happened, and you perpetuate this lazy silliness by repeating it here without also bothering to check it out. No that we know how low your standard is when it comes to “evidence” I fully expect to see a link to a “Casper” cartoon in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/253 "2013-11-12T00:44:04Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Snopes has a page on the incident you reference, **Mr Quatro** > > [San Antonio Ghost Children | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/ghosts/handprint.asp) Oh great another bubble busted that’s what I get for being on dial up … as for the North American Indian grave yard don’t you watch western movies? I believe it was in the movie about Jeremiah the mountain man that he had to take a short cut through the Indian grave yard, even the horses were spooked. I bet the horses could tell us if ghost are real lol ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/254 "2013-11-12T00:47:35Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Oh great another bubble busted that’s what I get for being on dial up … > > as for the North American Indian grave yard don’t you watch western movies? I believe it was in the movie about Jeremiah the mountain man that he had to take a short cut through the Indian grave yard, even the horses were spooked. > > I bet the horses could tell us if ghost are real lol “lol” indeed. :rolleyes: I take it from this response and your previous one that you have no intention of taking this request for evidence seriously? Thank you for the waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/255 "2013-11-12T00:55:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Wow-you actually managed to one-down _lekatt’s_ “evidence” of personal experiences-you give us a “legend” that the people of that website make absolutely no effort to check out as evidence of ghosts.They couldn’t even bother to check out if such an accident even happened, and you perpetuate this lazy silliness by repeating it here without also bothering to check it out. No that we know how low your standard is when it comes to “evidence” I fully expect to see a link to a “Casper” cartoon in the near future. Now your knocking my links. You know good and well they didn’t have the internet 70 years ago lol Do they pay you to be funny Czarcasm? You make people think. Your too funny to deal with, but I like your humor … I love your Czarcasm 😃 How about Cecil? Hasn’t anyone ever asked him the OP’s question? I noticed you found the link for Edgar Cayce for someone … Can’t you quote what Cecil said Czarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/256 "2013-11-12T01:00:35Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > ave yard don’t you watch western movies? I believe it was in the movie about Jeremiah the mountain man that he had to take a short cut through the Indian grave yard, even the horses were spooked. > > I bet the horses could tell us if ghost are real lol It’d be nice to get real evidence and not just stuff from movies lol. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/257 "2013-11-12T01:46:57Z")
Can this eye witness account qualify? From the south side of Chicago even:[[Personal Testimonials – Psychic Abilities, Personal Experiences & More – Legends of America](http://www.legendsofamerica.com/gh-testimonials.html#Ghosts) of the South Side of Chicago]([Personal Testimonials – Psychic Abilities, Personal Experiences & More – Legends of America](http://www.legendsofamerica.com/gh-testimonials.html#Ghosts) of the South Side of Chicago) > [@](#): > > Ghosts of the South Side of Chicago > > When I was a little girl at the age of nine, my family my family was living in the south side of Chicago. We moved into a co-op and the first year everything seemed nice and normal. Then one night as I was getting ready for bed, I took my stuffed toy dog, kissed him goodnight, placed him on a chair, and crawled into bed. > > In the middle of the night I was awakened by voices and opened my eyes to see at least a dozen ghosts flying over my head and talking. They were very cheerful and seemd to fly right through each other. I could not see their faces and they were all wearing dark brown long cloaks. They looked a little like the ghost of Christmas yet to come from the Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. At first I thought I must be dreaming! > > I laid in bed and pretended to be asleep when suddenly one of the ghosts stopped and petted my stuffed toy dog. I squinted my eyes and turned over when I heard one of the ghosts say, “Is she awake?” Then another responded, “No, she’s still asleep.” > > They continued to fly through my room for at least an hour or so, continuing to laugh and talk. Though I couldn’t understand what they were saying, they sounded very friendly. > > When I finally opened my eyes, they all said, “She’s awake!” Then they flew into all four corners of my room and disappeared. The next morning when I woke up, my stuffed dog was leaning over lop sided. The experience did kind of freak me out. I never saw a ghost in my room or anywhere else ever again. > > This event took place back in 1974 and since then I have always been intrigued with ghost stories. > > Submitted By: Justine Putnam, September, 2005 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/258 "2013-11-12T01:49:18Z")
Qualify for what? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/259 "2013-11-12T01:57:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Qualify for what? For a lie detectors test. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/260 "2013-11-12T01:59:08Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > For a lie detectors test. Lie detector tests don’t work. And even if they did, it wouldn’t rule out a hallucination or false memory rather than a lie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=14)