# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/281 "2013-11-13T01:40:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Nope. Photos said to be of ghosts exist in large numbers. Not one of them has ever been verified. > > Yet not one of those ghosts can ever communicate any actual knowledge. For instance, no medium can ever channel the ghost of my father, and have that ghost tell me some secret that only my father and I knew. The medium can’t channel a ghost that could tell me the combination to his old Post Office Box, or the PIN for his bank account. Funny how ghosts don’t know these things. > > Same problem: they cannot communicate any actual knowledge. They can recite platitudes, but they can’t tell you anything real. > > For many years, I have kept a particular item on a top shelf in my living room. I have challenged several people who claim the ability to travel “out of body” to come into my living room in their spirit form and look on my top shelf. Not one of them can actually do so. > > (Sort of a cheap-jack home-grown Amazing Randi challenge.) > > The field is fraudulent; there is absolutely no meaningful evidence for ghosts or spirits. You are wrong on all assumptions. Now tell me about your experience with these things. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/282 "2013-11-13T01:52:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Yet not one of those ghosts can ever communicate any actual knowledge. For instance, no medium can ever channel the ghost of my father, and have that ghost tell me some secret that only my father and I knew. > > Same problem: they cannot communicate any actual knowledge. They can recite platitudes, but they can’t tell you anything real. > > The field is fraudulent;\*\* there is absolutely no meaningful evidence for ghosts or spirits\*\*. Don’t take my word for it … if you can’t trust the wife of a recent President of the United States … who can you trust? I offer as my evidence the testimony of Mrs Hillary Clinton: [http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/](http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/) > [@](#): > > Did U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton communicate with the dead spirit of former first lady Eleanor Roosevelt just this week? > > If you believe her husband, Bill Clinton, the answer would be yes. > > On Wednesday, Mr. Clinton appeared in New York City at a dedication ceremony for the Franklin D. Roosevelt Four Freedoms Park. > > In his remarks, the former president said his wife “was known to commune” with Eleanor Roosevelt, who died in November 1962, and that Roosevelt gave Hillary a message for him this week. From the same article: > [@](#): > > This is not the first time a connection between Hillary Clinton and Eleanor Roosevelt has been made. > > Author Bob Woodward claimed in his 1996 book “The Choice” that Hillary engaged in imaginary conversations with Mrs. Roosevelt as well as Mahatma Gandhi as a therapeutic exercise. Mr Quatro has to go rest now … he’s tired from searching for proof all day 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/283 "2013-11-13T02:02:32Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Don’t take my word for it … if you can’t trust the wife of a recent President of the United States … who can you trust? I offer as my evidence the testimony of Mrs Hillary Clinton: [http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/](http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/) > > From the same article: > > Mr Quatro has to go rest now … he’s tired from searching for proof all day 😉 That is really laughable, there is nothing on what Bill said that does not point again to \*\*imaginary \*\*conversations. No evidence whatsoever that she was referring to actual spirits. What you found was more evidence of the tongue in cheek that Bill has. And then, dude, you had to reach for World \*Nut \*Daily, where birtherism and other conspiracy theories against Democrats thrive. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/284 "2013-11-13T02:14:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I actually learnt how to read tarot cards at one point, since it seemed and interesting thing to do. . . . I developed a chart to roll up personalities for D&D characters using standard astrological signs and planets. I figured it might be useful for players who find themselves always playing the same character. Give them a few behavior hooks. I set up a table at a small gathering selling one personality for a quarter. There was a poster stating exactly what I’d be doing for those 25 cents. Only a few people were interested. Those few people seemed very interested. I wasn’t quite sure why they were following the dice rolls so avidly until one of them nodded and said with satisfaction, “Oh, that’s so true! That’s just me all over.” And her friends nodded. They were all very pleased with the personality sheets that I handed them. People just want to believe so badly. I think I used the seventy-five cents to get a hot dog. It was that long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/285 "2013-11-13T02:15:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are wrong on all assumptions. Now tell me about your experience with these things. No. You just made an accusation-back it up with facts. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/286 "2013-11-13T03:11:54Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Don’t take my word for it … if you can’t trust the wife of a recent President of the United States … who can you trust? I offer as my evidence the testimony of Mrs Hillary Clinton: [http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/](http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/) > > From the same article: > > Mr Quatro has to go rest now … he’s tired from searching for proof all day 😉 If you searched all day - and that was the proof you came up with - well, you really wasted your day. IF the story as quoted is true - the best it would prove is that Hillary believed it - it still would not actually be evidence for the ghost in question. As it stands - thats not what one would call a reputable site. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/287 "2013-11-13T05:16:27Z")
> [@simster](#): > > IF the story as quoted is true - the best it would prove is that Hillary believed it - it still would not actually be evidence for the ghost in question. > > As it stands - thats not what one would call a reputable site. [www.snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com) has no information and they would know, right? or would they? > [@](#): > > Sorry, no matches were found containing Hillary Rodham Clinton and Eleanor Roosevelt . but it’s easy enough to check out: I believe her story that she is a Methodist, but she is keeping company with some strange people: [http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1018.html](http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1018.html) > [@](#): > > The Providence Journal Bulletin, Tuesday, 6/25/96, p. A3. “Hillary Rodham Clinton said yesterday her imaginary conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt were merely an ‘intellectual exercise’ … Trying to douse what she called ‘sensational’ speculation, the first lady rejected inferences that psychic researcher Jean Houston, who led her in several White House sessions, was her ‘spiritual adviser’.” > [@](#): > > "In a written statement, Mrs. Clinton was firm in her denial that there were any psychic or religious overtones to the sessions. ‘The bottom line is: I have no spiritual advisers or any other alternatives to my deeply held Methodist faith and traditions upon which I have relied since childhood.’ " > [@](#): > > “Mrs. Clinton met with Houston several times from late 1994 until March of this year, according to a new book [by Bob Woodward, ‘The Choice’] that says Houston led the first lady through imaginary conversations with her hero, Mrs. Roosevelt and Indian leader … Ghandi … Mrs. Clinton said she engaged in hours of ‘freewheeling discussions’ with Houston.” I don’t think voices are friendly little ghost … they are demons, they are lying spirits, they are like electricity, they will take the least path of resistance and this is proof that a person we all know as the ex-Secretary of State and present wife of President Bill Clinton and being vetted to run for the highest office in our land is talking with demons. Proof? You want to see one? You want a picture? You want to go higher than Hillary Clinton talking to one? Will this come up again and again? What will be the excuse next time? What about the story of bullets chasing her down the run way after landing in Bosnia or wherever she said it happened. That excuse was a classic. If she makes it to the next round of who’s going to run for the highest office in America then love truly does not see the blemish’s. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/288 "2013-11-13T05:17:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are wrong on all assumptions. Now tell me about your experience with these things. You are wrong on all your assumptions. Now please stop telling us about your experience with these things. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/289 "2013-11-13T05:20:42Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > . . . What about the story of bullets chasing her down the run way after landing in Bosnia or wherever she said it happened. . . . She’s admitted that her memory was faulty. As for talking to Elanor Roosevelt, those were imaginary conversations. There’s nothing supernatural about that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/290 "2013-11-13T05:29:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Will this come up again and again? What will be the excuse next time? It won’t. People are shallow and gullible, but they can find better crap to talk about than this. Clinton wasted her own time if she saw a psychic, but this is even worse: you’re rambling about demons and invisible nonsense, and enough people take that shit seriously that the First Lady had to deny seeing a psychic so she wouldn’t be accused of consorting with the Devil. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/291 "2013-11-13T16:50:16Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You are wrong on all your assumptions. Now please stop telling us about your experience with these things. I don’t make assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/292 "2013-11-13T16:58:36Z")
You leap to conclusions. Care to stop with this sniping, and actually say something concrete? Care to identify a medium who has channeled a ghost who actually produced knowledge that only the ghost and one living relative could have known? I gave the example of the ghost of my father telling the combination to his Post Office Box. Only my father and I knew that. No medium can accomplish this. No one has ever won the James Randi challenge. Instead of just sneering, can you actually produce something? I challenge you, but I’m not going to pay any million dollars. You cannot accomplish such a feat. No one can. There is no evidence for communication with the spirit world. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/293 "2013-11-13T17:05:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Speaks for itself…and yet says absolutely nothing. To you it may say nothing but to others a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/294 "2013-11-13T17:13:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t make assumptions. You make tons of them. I explored a few in one of my last posts. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/295 "2013-11-13T17:34:37Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Don’t take my word for it … if you can’t trust the wife of a recent President of the United States … who can you trust? I offer as my evidence the testimony of Mrs Hillary Clinton: [http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/](http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/eleanor-roosevelt-talked-to-hillary-this-week/) Gee. A rabidly Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian website that hates Hilary Clinton and casts every story as a fight between Good (them) and Evil (everyone else). Sorry. Not credible. > [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I believe her story that she is a Methodist, but she is keeping company with some strange people: [http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1018.html](http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1018.html) Ri-i-i-i-i-ight. Your source is a nutcase website that casts everything in terms of a fear of the “New World Order.” :rolleyes: How about something from a genuine news source that even comes close to supporting your drek? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/296 "2013-11-13T17:49:53Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > To you it may say nothing but to others a lot. It certainly says something to me, but I doubt it’s what you intended. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/297 "2013-11-13T17:57:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > To you it may say nothing but to others a lot. Are these “others” you speak of living in this material world? None of them seem to be posting on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/298 "2013-11-13T20:22:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You leap to conclusions. > > Care to stop with this sniping, and actually say something concrete? > > Care to identify a medium who has channeled a ghost who actually produced knowledge that only the ghost and one living relative could have known? I gave the example of the ghost of my father telling the combination to his Post Office Box. Only my father and I knew that. No medium can accomplish this. No one has ever won the James Randi challenge. > > Instead of just sneering, can you actually produce something? I challenge you, but I’m not going to pay any million dollars. > > You cannot accomplish such a feat. No one can. There is no evidence for communication with the spirit world. I do produce a lot of evidence but it is summarily dismissed without reading or even looking at it. Here is a real medium who talks to dead people. Watch her on TV. [http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/long-island-medium](http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/long-island-medium) There were three real psychics from England several years ago that challenged Randi. They even offered to not take the money if Randi would allow the test to be video taped in its entirely and shown to the public. Randi refused and no real psychic has ever asked again. I do not sneer at others whatever they believe. Never The real evidence of separation of mind and body is the placebo effect. Mind over matter. Also the reverse of it when people die after being cursed and believing it. In both cases the mind causes the body to change. If there were nothing but body and brain this would not happen. The brain does not contain not have a mind of it own. NDEs show that the mind can live without the brain or body. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/299 "2013-11-13T20:27:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There were three real psychics from England several years ago that challenged Randi. They even offered to not take the money if Randi would allow the test to be video taped in its entirely and shown to the public. Randi refused and no real psychic has ever asked again. Enough of these stupid stories of yours-I want a cite for this. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/300 "2013-11-13T20:27:25Z")
If you would like evidence of the research on NDEs by Phds, and Doctors of Medicine you can read about it here. > **[Near Death Experiences, Real Glimpses of Afterlife - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://aleroy.com/blog/archives/3370)** > > The Jury is in. After more than 35 years of research by top scientists, the studies all point to consciousness living beyond the death of the brain and body. Incredible as it may sound, we now have solid evidence of an afterlife. % I post this all the skeptics do is say not without reading and without evidence. Maybe you will do better. Can you explain how a blind from birth person can see when out of body. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=16)