# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/61 "2013-11-06T13:34:28Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > You mean disprove the efficacy of Ceremonial Magic? Be my guest. I mean, as you damn well know, that since you made the initial fantastic claim, it is up to _you_ to provide evidence for your claim. > [@thepillar](#): > > Is this one of those “Straight Dope level opinions” or just a cop out? Neither-it is a fact. You tell me, right here and now, how he could possibly prove to you that no such magic exists anywhere on Earth? Even if he were to debunk every single case you could come up with, all you would have to say to cop out is “What about all those cases that people haven’t come forth with, huh?” It is the job of the person making the fantastic claim to provide evidence for that claim, _always_. > [@thepillar](#): > > Next time you ask for proof from someone you don’t know, make sure there’s a clearly elaborated and mutually accepted standard of proof. In every single thread I’ve ever seen where a person has been asked to provide _evidence_ for their fantastic claim, two things _always_ pop up: 1. The claimant moves the goalposts and changes the word “evidence” to the word “proof” to make it sound as if the opposing side is being unreasonable. 2. The claimant asks the cop-out question, “Can you prove it can’t and/or didn’t happen?” Now that you’ve tried both tactics and failed, let’s get back on track. _Since you made the initial fantastic claim, can you provide any evidence at all to back up your fantastic claim?_ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/62 "2013-11-06T14:00:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now, I am willing to be open minded about this subject. Although no evidence has been brought forth so far, if any wish to come forward and give their _best_ evidence for the existence of demons and/or ghosts and/or evil spirits and/or any other supernatural entities, please do so that it might be examined and discussed. In fact, to save time, let’s just skip with any “I have evidence, but you would just dismiss it so I’m not gonna!” statements, or You Tube videos of people telling tall tales-that’s just a stall tactic. Evidence, please. The story goes this picture was taken to document the wreck, but it contained something unexpected. [http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=\_\_LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4\_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=__LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/63 "2013-11-06T14:05:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The story goes this picture was taken to document the wreck, but it contained something unexpected. > > [http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=\_\_LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4\_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=__LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA) Go start storytime over in MPSIMS, please. You have presented no evidence here that can be checked out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/64 "2013-11-06T14:12:16Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The story goes this picture was taken to document the wreck, but it contained something unexpected. > > [http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=\_\_LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4\_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/photos/Others-Photos/car%2520crash%2520ghost%2520pictures.jpg&imgrefurl=http://innatus-spiritus.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid%3D76416794&h=628&w=992&sz=79&tbnid=2rI1zrVJcfgqzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=190&zoom=1&usg=__LMbJSB4gDe8rbClUbd4_ZQBnW48=&docid=Z5qyIPuJ1Cf7FM&sa=X&ei=P0p6UsHxItTukQfDoIDwCw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA) Where was this picture taken, when was it taken, and who took it? Did anybody analyze it to see if it was Photoshopped? _In what way is this evidence of anything?_ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/65 "2013-11-06T15:19:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where was this picture taken, when was it taken, and who took it? Did anybody analyze it to see if it was Photoshopped? _In what way is this evidence of anything?_ When I posted this photo I never thought for a moment it would be taken as evidence. Nor would anything else be accepted as evidence. I can’t even imagine what form evidence would take. So do with it what you will as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/66 "2013-11-06T15:22:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When I posted this photo I never thought for a moment it would be taken as evidence. Nor would anything else be accepted as evidence. I can’t even imagine what form evidence would take. So do with it what you will as usual. Then why the fuck did you present it here after being asked to provide evidence? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/67 "2013-11-06T15:26:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then why the fuck did you present it here after being asked to provide evidence? It would be evidence to many people in a different setting or environment, just not here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/68 "2013-11-06T15:27:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It would be evidence to many people in a different setting or environment, just not here. In what possible way could it be considered evidence of anything, since you provided no information about the background of the photograph? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/69 "2013-11-06T15:39:00Z")
I refer you to post #55. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/70 "2013-11-06T15:42:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In what possible way could it be considered evidence of anything, since you provided no information about the background of the photograph? I did provide information, the rest is self-evident. One picture is worth… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/71 "2013-11-06T15:44:37Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I did provide information, the rest is self-evident. One picture is worth… …crap, as usual. Answer the question: In what way is that photo evidence for what is being proposed by the OP? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/72 "2013-11-06T15:46:43Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I refer you to post #55. Sounds OK to me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/73 "2013-11-06T15:48:11Z")
[Some background on that photo.](http://ghoststudy.com/new9/accident_spirit.htm) The people at [ghoststudy.com](http://ghoststudy.com) think it’s a ghost, but they have enough integrity to admit they can’t rule out things like reflections and glare. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/74 "2013-11-06T15:48:46Z")
When asked for evidence, why did you post the link to that unattributed and unexplained photo, **lekatt**? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/75 "2013-11-06T15:51:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …crap, as usual. Answer the question: In what way is that photo evidence for what is being proposed by the OP? It is a photo of a ghost – therefor ghosts exist. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/76 "2013-11-06T15:57:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Some background on that photo.](http://ghoststudy.com/new9/accident_spirit.htm) The people at [ghoststudy.com](http://ghoststudy.com) think it’s a ghost, but they have enough integrity to admit they can’t rule out things like reflections and glare. Close enough, they can’t say it isn’t a ghost either. I believe it is unlikely caused by reflections or glare because the form is sharp. I take a lot of photos and know about those things. So it might be better to establish where a ghost comes from or what causes them to be around us. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/77 "2013-11-06T16:00:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Some background on that photo.](http://ghoststudy.com/new9/accident_spirit.htm) The people at [ghoststudy.com](http://ghoststudy.com) think it’s a ghost, but they have enough integrity to admit they can’t rule out things like reflections and glare. From your link: > [@](#): > > The photographer, Sharon Boo, from the Pawling Fire Department, in New York State, took several pictures. Photos were taken from all angles as a service that Sharon provided for the fire department. However, only one picture happened to capture this strange figure. The image is in human form and size and appears to have wings. It’s reported that Rose felt confident that the image in the picture was that of an angel. Or more to the point, a protective spirit that spared Rose from serious if not fatal consequences. When pictures are taken from all angles, but the image only appears in one shot, what does that suggest to a rational person? Also, your imagination has to be in overdrive if you think that the two side appendages of the image look anything like the wings of an angel or guardian. Considering the large illuminated area at the bottom of the image, I have an alternate suggestion: The is the ghost of a Mafia victim who had his feet encased in cement and was tossed in a nearby river. He haunts the highways looking for the people that killed him. At least my made-up story matches the image better than the one about the angel. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/78 "2013-11-06T16:02:06Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Close enough, they can’t say it isn’t a ghost either. I believe it is unlikely caused by reflections or glare because the form is sharp. I take a lot of photos and know about those things. > > So it might be better to establish where a ghost comes from or what causes them to be around us. If you think that image is “sharp”, then you need to get yourself a new box camera. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/79 "2013-11-06T16:02:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Close enough, they can’t say it isn’t a ghost either. No, [ghoststudy.com](http://ghoststudy.com) did not say it’s not a ghost. > [@](#): > > I believe it is unlikely caused by reflections or glare because the form is sharp. I take a lot of photos and know about those things. The whole thing is hazy and kind of see-through, especially around the edges. But sure, somehow that means ‘sharp.’ > [@](#): > > So it might be better to establish where a ghost comes from or what causes them to be around us. That entire discussion is a waste of time without good evidence. Even considering your views on the subject, “that’s a photo of a ghost, therefore ghosts exist” is laughable. If you know lots and lots about photos you should know how easy it is to get a photo that’s either distorted or faked. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Considering the large illuminated area at the bottom of the image, I have an alternate suggestion: The is the ghost of a Mafia victim who had his feet encased in cement and was tossed in a nearby river. He haunts the highways looking for the people that killed him. At least my made-up story matches the image better than the one about the angel. :rolleyes: It’s obviously the ghost of someone who died wearing a Charlie Brown ghost costume. Splitter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/80 "2013-11-06T16:05:32Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is a photo of a ghost – therefor ghosts exist. [Even sharper image of flying saucers](http://www.yourprops.com/movieprops/original/yp_4e552a5814c652.48924752/Plan-9-From-Outer-Space-Flying-Saucer-5.jpg), therefore flying saucers exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=5)