# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/81 "2013-11-06T16:22:48Z")
if a still photo of something blurry is enough evidence for **lekatt** , how about a video? it’s even country specific since ghosts in Japan are usually drawn like smoke. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc4sQT\_2GGE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc4sQT_2GGE) at about 10:47 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/82 "2013-11-06T16:29:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When I posted this photo I never thought for a moment it would be taken as evidence. Nor would anything else be accepted as evidence. I can’t even imagine what form evidence would take. So do with it what you will as usual. Its evidence. It’s not evidence. It seems like debating in bad faith. It’s also a warning. Do better. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/83 "2013-11-07T01:34:35Z")
I’ve had many problems with people calling the third person in the trinity the Holy Ghost instead of the Holy Spirit. The word itself came into being in the authorized King James era of the 1500’s and many people still use it, but the word ghost simply means spirit. In order to see spirit things you have to be in the spirit. No one has succeeded yet in explaining spirit thing’s to non spiritual people with the words crazy being attached to most people that see angels, ghost or spirits. Elijah told his replacement Elisha that he could have anything he requested of him before he left seeing’s how the prophet Elijah was a great and mighty man of God. Elisha asked that he could have twice the spiritual gift that Elijah had. Elijah said that this was a very hard thing to ask for, but if Elisha were to see Elijah leave the earth then Elisha would have what he has asked for. 2 Kings 2:9-12 NKJV > [@](#): > > Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask! What may I do for you, before I am taken away from you?” > Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.” > 10 So he said, “You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so.” > 11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly \*\*a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. \*\*12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!” So he saw him no more. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/84 "2013-11-07T01:42:03Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > In order to see spirit things you have to be in the spirit. No one has succeeded yet in explaining spirit thing’s to non spiritual people with the words crazy being attached to most people that see angels, ghost or spirits. That’s just a standard “you just aren’t _enlightened_ enough to see it” handwave that get used to defend everything from religious claims to pseudoscience like psychic powers & N-rays. Plenty of people have succeeded “in explaining spirit thing’s to non spiritual people”; we just don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/85 "2013-11-07T02:18:28Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > In order to see spirit things you have to be in the spirit. This is a tautology designed to stop people from asking for real evidence. It shouldn’t be respected. > [@](#): > > No one has succeeded yet in explaining spirit thing’s to non spiritual people with the words crazy being attached to most people that see angels, ghost or spirits. Sure they have. I understand perfectly well what ghosts and angels and spirits are. The general idea is not complicated. The problem is that you can’t do is convince me they’re real based on the paltry evidence that exists and you can’t convince me to overlook all the problems with the laws of physics and so on that are tied up in these concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/86 "2013-11-07T02:23:50Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Millions of people say they have seen ghosts, demons, and evil spirits over all of history. Now we are to believe science has solved this phenomena. Yes, science has. You just refuse to believe it. Before you post another idiotic statement, you, seriously, need to read [The Demon Haunted World,](http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383790761&sr=1-1&keywords=demon+haunted+world) by Carl Sagan, which has been suggested to you countless times before. Just remember, Sagan is Love. ---
**Author:** ![thepillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@thepillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thepillar)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/87 "2013-11-07T05:54:39Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Could you describe the sort of phenomena you think the observer would be likely to witness? I mean, are we talking about free-floating, full-torso, vaporous apparitions, or would we instead witness the practitioner _talking in a different voice_? Demons are incorporeal entities that usually make use of the incense smoke present during the ritual to manifest. The voice would come from it and not the conjuror. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Since you made the initial fantastic claim, can you provide any evidence at all to back up your fantastic claim?_ The best form of evidence, as I’ve already stated earlier on, can only be derived from the PERSONAL participation of the skeptic in the actual ritual with a contemporary practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/88 "2013-11-07T07:27:58Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I’ve had many problems with people calling the third person in the trinity the Holy Ghost instead of the Holy Spirit. The word itself came into being in the authorized King James era of the 1500’s and many people still use it, but the word ghost simply means spirit. 😕 If “the word ghost simply means spirit,” what is wrong with calling the “Holy Spirit” the “Holy Ghost”? > [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Elijah told his replacement Elisha that he could have anything he requested of him before he left seeing’s how the prophet Elijah was a great and mighty man of God. Elisha asked that he could have twice the spiritual gift that Elijah had. No, that’s not what Elisha asked for at all. He asked for “the double portion” of Elijah’s gifts, meaning “the largest share.” The term was usually used for inheritance: The oldest son would get “the double portion” / “the largest share,” so by asking for it, Elisha makes clear that he sees himself as, or wishes to be seen as, Elijah’s son, or successor. In other words: Elisha did _not_ wish to be twice as great as Elijah, or gain twice his “spiritual gift”; he wished, instead, and rather more humbly, to follow in Elijah’s footsteps as a loyal son / worthy successor. > [@thepillar](#): > > Demons are incorporeal entities that usually make use of the incense smoke present during the ritual to manifest. The voice would come from it and not the conjuror. I recently came across this charming tidbit: > [@](#): > > “Joseph Glanvill (1636–80) proposed the rather charming theory that spirits appeared only briefly, because it was painful for them to compress their bodies into a sufficiently dense consistency to become visible.” From _Angels of Light? Sanctity and the Discernment of Spirits in the Early Modern Period_, edited by Clare Copeland and Jan Machielsen. A very lovely anthology, BTW, dealing with how folks way back then would wrestle with the very tricky - and very important! - question of how to tell the difference between a demon and an angel. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/89 "2013-11-07T11:23:28Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > Demons are incorporeal entities that usually make use of the incense smoke present during the ritual to manifest. The voice would come from it and not the conjuror. > > The best form of evidence, as I’ve already stated earlier on, can only be derived from the PERSONAL participation of the skeptic in the actual ritual with a contemporary practitioner. That’s a _proposition_. _Evidence_ would be you providing a cite that showed that such had happened, and the name of the skeptic this had happened to. _Do you have any evidence for your initial proposition?_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/90 "2013-11-07T11:25:12Z")
> [@thepillar](#): > > Demons are incorporeal entities that usually make use of the incense smoke present during the ritual to manifest. The voice would come from it and not the conjuror. Who told you this, and by what authority does this person speak? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/91 "2013-11-07T11:59:56Z")
Actually, that’d be an anecdote. How to actually gather _evidence_ for something like this is difficult. Maybe a microphone on the voice box of the conjurer and another one elsewhere, to ensure that the conjurer actually did not say it. But if the best form of evidence involves personal experience of an occurrence basically _designed_ to mess with the viewer’s perceptions, with all manner of psychological tricks in a situation that is hard to wrap your head around for most people. If the best you can offer is personal experience, then that’s not good enough. Not by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/92 "2013-11-07T13:25:26Z")
> [@Simon\_Templar\_1](#): > > I recently watched the movie “The Conjuring”. Which led me to wondering if there has ever been any real proof that ghosts, demons or evil spirits exist. For that matter, do Saints exist? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/93 "2013-11-07T13:32:48Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Actually, that’d be an anecdote. How to actually gather _evidence_ for something like this is difficult. Maybe a microphone on the voice box of the conjurer and another one elsewhere, to ensure that the conjurer actually did not say it. But if the best form of evidence involves personal experience of an occurrence basically _designed_ to mess with the viewer’s perceptions, with all manner of psychological tricks in a situation that is hard to wrap your head around for most people. If the best you can offer is personal experience, then that’s not good enough. Not by a long shot. Let’s not get off track. I’m not asking **thepillar** how to gather evidence-I’m asking for the evidence itself. A particular claim was made by **thepillar** , and I’d like to see the evidence for that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/94 "2013-11-07T13:45:45Z")
Ah, fair enough. Should’ve read more carefully. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/95 "2013-11-07T13:52:56Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > For that matter, do Saints exist? “Yes,” in that historically attested people have been canonized by the Catholic Church. “Maybe,” in the sense that there is obviously no way of knowing whether God (if he/she/it exists) really considers any or all of these self-same people “true” saints, or even goes along with the whole “sainthood” concept in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/96 "2013-11-07T13:55:50Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > “Yes,” in that historically attested people have been canonized by the Catholic Church. > > “Maybe,” in the sense that there is obviously no way of knowing whether God (if he/she/it exists) really considers any or all of these self-same people “true” saints, or even goes along with the whole “sainthood” concept in the first place. whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/97 "2013-11-07T13:57:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > whoosh. Damnit. What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/98 "2013-11-07T13:58:48Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Damnit. What did I miss? The name of the poster **Peter Morris** was responding to. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/99 "2013-11-07T13:59:39Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Damnit. What did I miss? Czarcasm was replying to something by Simon Templar. Simon Templar is a fictional detective also known as the Saint. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/100 "2013-11-07T14:06:07Z")
:smack: I’ve even _seen_ that show. It ran on Swedish TV in the late 90’s, presumably as some kind of 60’s nostalgia thing. Or maybe it was just because the fella drives a badass Volvo… Or both. Most likely both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=6)