# Who ya gonna call? \[Is there any proof of ghosts, demons, or evil spirits?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119 "2013-11-05T03:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/161 "2013-11-08T20:11:25Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is no default assumption, there are no assumptions at all that are rational. You made the claim so the burden of proof falls on you. another prime example - ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/162 "2013-11-08T20:13:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > And what would that be… Not going to bother to respond to him-from years of interaction with him I know doing so would be like trying to impart knowledge to a goldfish(it’s just not gonna imprint), and I’m pretty sure most others understood exactly what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/163 "2013-11-08T20:13:56Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, and most everything I say is questioned, with anger and name calling. I don’t understand where all that comes from. There have been any number of Pit threads started in your honor, where many posters have explained exactly why they react to you like that, at great length and in fine detail. You should check them out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/164 "2013-11-08T20:15:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > And what would that be… > > I am trying to learn, help me. I’m sorry, but the last decade has led me to believe that you _can’t_. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/165 "2013-11-08T20:26:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It is not your honesty that is in question so much as it is your incredible(one might even call it paranormal) ability tobe wrong on almost every subject you talk about, coupled with your inability to learn and retain the simplest of scientific definitions, rules and procedures. If I am not a scientist does that make me a bad person, or an ignorant one? Must I measure all of my posts by science. I don’t follow the rules of religion either, what does that make me? Are you the final judge of what I am by what I post or is there a higher court I can appeal too. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/166 "2013-11-08T20:28:23Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If I am not a scientist does that make me a bad person, or an ignorant one? Must I measure all of my posts by science. I don’t follow the rules of religion either, what does that make me? Are you the final judge of what I am by what I post or is there a higher court I can appeal too. I am not a scientist - but I understand what the terms, method and idea is. You can educate yourself on the scientific method and what ‘evidence’ is and be less ignorant of it - that is your choice. As for a higher court - submit your findings to a peer reviewed journal - preferably a scientific one - see what they say. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/167 "2013-11-08T20:31:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I fully believe that you are being honest with what you think - you are not, however, being fully honest\* in your claims or citations, nor are you (seemingly) able to back up your claims with verifiable evidence. Your ‘quotes’ of other authors are rarely complete or accurate. > > (\*honest in the sense that every claim/cite you make is so obviously wrong you are either intentionally doing it or are so fully mis-informed that you have no other option) I am being honest but not fully honest? Why would I need to back up every post I make with scientific verification. I don’t notice you doing that. You have told me science can find no evidence of ghosts, so perhaps some other method can find evidence. Is science infallible, like the Pope? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/168 "2013-11-08T20:33:22Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I am not a scientist - but I understand what the terms, method and idea is. You can educate yourself on the scientific method and what ‘evidence’ is and be less ignorant of it - that is your choice. > > As for a higher court - submit your findings to a peer reviewed journal - preferably a scientific one - see what they say. Why would I want to do this being a non-scientist. Can you speak to non-scientists. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/169 "2013-11-08T20:34:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but the last decade has led me to believe that you _can’t_. You have insulted me again. I have feelings. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/170 "2013-11-08T20:35:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There have been any number of Pit threads started in your honor, where many posters have explained exactly why they react to you like that, at great length and in fine detail. > > You should check them out. No, I never go to the Pit and dish the dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/171 "2013-11-08T20:38:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, I never go to the Pit and dish the dirt. You wanted to know why people don’t like you, that’s where you can learn. Their ability to answer in this forum is necessarily going to be limited, because there’s only so far someone can go in pointing out your negative qualities before they run afoul of the forum’s rules. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/172 "2013-11-08T20:38:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am being honest but not fully honest? Why would I need to back up every post I make with scientific verification. I don’t notice you doing that. You have told me science can find no evidence of ghosts, so perhaps some other method can find evidence. Is science infallible, like the Pope? You’re honest as to what you believe - your cites and references are often so wrong it is hard to tell if you are being intentional with the wrongness (which is a sort of dis-honesty) or if you are genuinely just that ‘wrong’. Science is self correcting - you show it the evidence - it will accept it and change its current understanding - ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/173 "2013-11-08T20:39:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am being honest but not fully honest? Why would I need to back up every post I make with scientific verification. I don’t notice you doing that. You have told me science can find no evidence of ghosts, so perhaps some other method can find evidence. Is science infallible, like the Pope? Been nice-tried reason-time to try something else. Don’t care about your personal problems and hurt feelings anymore, **lekatt**. Show us the _best_ evidence you’ve got for the existence of a ghost, demon or evil spirit. Since you have been told many times that anonymous anecdotes and/or You Tube speeches are not evidence, I would ask that you not insult our intelligence by presenting either. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/174 "2013-11-08T20:40:20Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Why would I want to do this being a non-scientist. Can you speak to non-scientists. Why would you NOT want to understand the scientific method and how things work within that framework? One does not have to ‘be a scientist’ to atleast get an understanding of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/175 "2013-11-08T20:48:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but the last decade has led me to believe that you _can’t_. Little too personal, there, Czarcasm. Dial it down a bit. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/176 "2013-11-08T20:49:48Z")
I have had enough for today. Most people in this world are one thought people. They are consumed by that thought and measure or filter everything that enters their life with it. That thought could be religion, politics, science, philosophy, math, literature, even cosmetic subjects. Few people will touch any and all bases of thought, studying all those listed above and many more. It is necessary to study subjects you don’t like or feel are not valid. But the pursuit is very satisfying. When two one thought people meet there is almost always conflict even to the extent of harming each other. It is the main cause of trouble in the world today. However if you broaden your awareness of the human condition you don’t have to get angry at others and live a more peaceful life. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/177 "2013-11-08T20:51:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Been nice-tried reason-time to try something else. > > Don’t care about your personal problems and hurt feelings anymore, **lekatt**. > Show us the _best_ evidence you’ve got for the existence of a ghost, demon or evil spirit. Since you have been told many times that anonymous anecdotes and/or You Tube speeches are not evidence, I would ask that you not insult our intelligence by presenting either. My best evidence is experience. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/178 "2013-11-08T20:55:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have had enough for today. > > Most people in this world are one thought people. They are consumed by that thought and measure or filter everything that enters their life with it. > > That thought could be religion, politics, science, philosophy, math, literature, even cosmetic subjects. > > Few people will touch any and all bases of thought, studying all those listed above and many more. It is necessary to study subjects you don’t like or feel are not valid. But the pursuit is very satisfying. > > When two one thought people meet there is almost always conflict even to the extent of harming each other. It is the main cause of trouble in the world today. However if you broaden your awareness of the human condition you don’t have to get angry at others and live a more peaceful life. 😕 I have no idea what your being a Renaissance Man has to do with this. What about giving us your evidence for ghosts, demons or evil spirits? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/179 "2013-11-08T21:08:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > My best evidence is experience. Which, as has been pointed out to you dozens of times, is useless. It can be a starting point for an investigation, but experience by itself is not evidence. We’ve pointed out many more plausible interpretations of your experiences that you ignore, dismiss, or refuse to accept. You say you have seen a ghost but if you presented the same evidence to someone else they would say that they were dreaming, or were tricked by a play of the light, or were under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs, or it was an artifact of loss of oxygen, or they were tricked by special effects, or simply mistaken. All of these can be demonstrated, repeated, and studied. Your ghost claim is assuming a conclusion and looking for data to support it. It’s bad logic, non-science, and pretty annoying. And extremely predictable as demonstrate the exact same pattern in every thread you engage in. BTW, I’m certainly not writing this response for you as I have no faith that you’ll ever read or understand the issue. I write this for others who can learn from your poor example. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119/180 "2013-11-08T22:18:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I read that event of reincarnation over 20 years ago. And I have no way to verify that. But even then, how would you have verified it? Even 20 years ago still leaves 40 years time between the statements made and that time. > [@](#): > > You really believe that don’t you. I have seen _no_ evidence that psychics work, and lots of evidence that psychics as a whole are frauds. So yes, I guess you could say that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-ya-gonna-call-is-there-any-proof-of-ghosts-demons-or-evil-spirits/673119.md?page=10)