# Who you are not (?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889 "2013-09-15T04:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gateway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dbc845/32.png) [@Gateway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gateway)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/1 "2013-09-15T04:15:27Z")
This is my idea based on my perceptions. I dont claim it is truth, but to me it seems to b near the truth at least. Who you r not… BODY:If you lose a hand you dont view yourself as two entities now but as having lost A HAND. The same goes for every part of you. what if everything except your body was suddenly put into a tree. So you can think, feel, hear, see, hold values, remember your life before this point, etc. The question is what do you say: Oh, “my body” is over there, or do you say “my SELF” is over there, MIND:You are not your mind. Thoughts come and go, but there is a self which observes them and exists independently of them happening. WILL: Will is the branch and not the root for one must exist first 4 there be a will. Plus you don’t have to will anything 2 exist. PERSONALITY: Your personality is a group of attributes on a scale (intro/extroverted, serious/playful, etc.). ALL of these attributds can change, and you say I HAVE A SERIOUS DISPOSITION, not I AM SERIOUS ITSELF. SPIRIT: Spirit is just another form of body, another vessel for u to BE IN, but it itself is not you for the same reason as the physical body. BRAIN: For the same reason as body this is not you. ACTION: Acttion implies doing but being is not the same as doing. Doing needs one who already exists. CONSCIOUSNESS: I’ll let you think about this 1 4 now if you so choose at least if choice exists in this moment 4 u, or if you exist. CORE of SELF ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/2 "2013-09-15T04:43:09Z")
> **[Identity (social science)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science))** > > Identity is the qualities, beliefs, personality traits, appearance, and/or expressions that characterize a person or group.\[note 1\] > In sociology, emphasis is placed on collective identity, in which an individual's identity is strongly associated with role-behavior or the collection of group memberships that define them. According to Peter Burke, "Identities tell us who we are and they announce to others who we are." Identities subsequently guide behavior, leading "fathers" to behave like "father... ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/3 "2013-09-15T04:59:50Z")
I disagree with point two. I think I am, in fact, my mind. My body is also intimately involved, as it supports the brain, which generates the mind. Everything else on that list is a secondary aspect of the mind. Also, friendly advice, spell words out. ICURAQT, but, nah. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/4 "2013-09-15T05:05:37Z")
> [@Gateway](#): > > what if everything except your body was suddenly put into a tree. So you can think, feel, hear, see, hold values, remember your life before this point, etc. The question is what do you say: Oh, “my body” is over there, or do you say “my SELF” is over there, Well, that’s a cute thought experiment, but seeing as nobody, as far as we know, has become a tree (I guess it’d be kind of hard to tell if it did happen) it’s not a particularly useful one. The general problem I have with arguments that go “imagine you’re a brain in a jar…” is the fact that there’s no real evidence that you’d still function the same as a brain in a jar. Sure, you can **imagine** yourself as a brain in a jar and **assume** you’d act the same way, but given that we really don’t have any frame of reference it’s nothing more than imagination. I mean, I can also imagine my cat is a charcoal drawing, but he’ll probably get rather cross if I sprayed fixative on him and tried to hang hum on the wall. The fact that I can imagine things doesn’t make them real. > [@Gateway](#): > > MIND:You are not your mind. Thoughts come and go, but there is a self which observes them and exists independently of them happening. You state this as if it’s obvious, but I don’t really see it. There are plenty of philosophies that posit the self is an emergent characteristic of the mind. Look up Higher-Order-Thoughts some time. Also, the “mind” is a really nebulous entity. In fact, “mind” is often used interchangeably with “self” (perhaps wrongly, perhaps not). It kind of moves the goalposts a bit, sure we are/are not mind, but what the hell is “mind” anyway? > [@](#): > > WILL: Will is the branch and not the root for one must exist first 4 there be a will. Plus you don’t have to will anything 2 exist. What? Will? I agree that will is an emergent characteristic, but why even bring it up? > [@](#): > > PERSONALITY: Your personality is a group of attributes on a scale (intro/extroverted, serious/playful, etc.). ALL of these attributds can change, and you say I HAVE A SERIOUS DISPOSITION, not I AM SERIOUS ITSELF. Same as Will. > [@](#): > > SPIRIT: Spirit is just another form of body, another vessel for u to BE IN, but it itself is not you for the same reason as the physical body. This assumes “spirit” is a thing. I think it’s just, at best, a fancy word for “self” that got swept up in (mostly religious) mythology. > [@](#): > > BRAIN: For the same reason as body this is not you. Then see my argument for body. > [@](#): > > ACTION: Acttion implies doing but being is not the same as doing. Doing needs one who already exists. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. > [@](#): > > CONSCIOUSNESS: I’ll let you think about this 1 4 now if you so choose at least if choice exists in this moment 4 u, or if you exist. Consciousness basically **is** self. The idea of identity and the problem of consciousness are so intertwined it can be hard to tell where one begins and the other ends. I’m not saying your argument on body and brain are wrong, per se. I’ve made the argument before that if you cut off your hand you’re still “you”. However, I came to the conclusion that “self” is a systemic property. It’s your brain, your body, your hormones, and all of that. If pieces are removed the whole isn’t necessarily compromised, it’s only when large parts are altered, especially suddenly, that self starts to change. The most important is the brain probably, but even some bad physical diseases can drastically affect a person. It’s a very [Ship of Theseus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) sort of argument. If I slowly remove parts from myself, at what point am I no longer “me”? However, I think a large part of “self” isn’t just consciousness, but **continuity of consciousness**. That is, it’s hard to say an entity is conscious at any given point in time, it’s only when it’s looked at over a period of time where it knows itself and thinks and feels and remains itself that it means anything. Kind of like how an integral is always zero at an exact point – the only meaning is when a range is measured. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Also, friendly advice, spell words out. ICURAQT, but, nah. Dude, what if he’s Prince!? Do you want to scare away Prince!? ---
**Author:** ![Gateway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dbc845/32.png) [@Gateway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gateway)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/5 "2013-09-15T05:06:28Z")
[quote=“Trinopus, post:3, topic:668889”] I disagree with point two. I think I am, in fact, my mind. My body is also intimately involved, as it supports the brain, which generates the mind. Everything else on that list is a secondary aspect of the mind. Y do u disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Gateway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dbc845/32.png) [@Gateway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gateway)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/6 "2013-09-15T05:30:43Z")
We disagree on a few key points. For one, I am attemping to look at the very core essence of what we are. The consciousness out of the body, while I am basically 100 percent sure exists, is useful to use in itself in order to look at where you find you real identity to be: in the now lifeless corps or in the tree, which is a guide to finding our true essence. When I refer to mind I refer to thinking I am looking at this not from a validated science, physical reality only perspective, but from a metaphysical perspective (as well as more). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/7 "2013-09-15T12:44:18Z")
Perhaps what I am is a unique set of parameters. I may be constantly changing but there is a set of limits I remain within throughout these changes. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/8 "2013-09-15T19:31:36Z")
Congratulations, you’ve just invented Buddhism! I’d say you are your will: your ability to choose. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-you-are-not/668889/9 "2013-09-15T19:42:34Z")
Someone once said that I was only magnetic ink–to suit a great computer. But I’m more than that. At least I think I must be.