Sorry Eutychus55, that was unintentional of me… but you can see how such a thing can happen… It was unintentional of Nickrz also, of that I am sure. But contestant #3 was judged worse then his sin… that is my thoughts… 
Cess, I left in a snit once too, and I got floods of e-mail asking me to come back. I did, but I have steadily become more and more discontented; it appears that if you make any statements that are not of the politically correct, liberal-approved persuasion, then prepare to be slammed, sliced, diced, ridiculed, and generally held up to be a total asshole by the worst segments of the board. I tried to be as intelligent and articulate in my posts as I could, and I put a lot of work into them, and what I got for my trouble was a lot of vicious nastiness poured out on my head that made me depressed for hours afterwards. Which is one reason why I haven’t posted anything for quite some time now. Who needs that? (“Cast not your pearls before swine”, you know.) I guess if I had to come up with one word to describe the general spirit on these boards, it would have to be “hate”. There is a lot of poison out there, and it comes out quite a lot here…and I’ll have to say, I have felt ever so much more happy and of a much more positive mental outlook since I’ve been away. It seems like anything that’s good or cheerful or even clean and wholesome is always flooded under by an avalanche of hatred, vindictiveness, vituperation, and ridicule on this site; the attacks are always swift, savage, and pretty horrible…and to try to refute them is pointless, since it would take you more webspace to do it than the attack is worth. And the debates never go anywhere; they just go around and around and around, in the same old tired spirals, with the same people never conceding that the other guy might have a point, or that they themselves might possibly be wrong once in awhile-----it’s always just the same thing, over and over. “I’m right, you’re wrong, and everything that you might believe or hold dear is garbage.” Period. It’s depressing and it’s tiresome. Not everybody is like that, of course----there are many good people here, but it’s the hate-filled element that pulls the whole thing down, and I’ve seen it drive several people off the board. There are those who used to be quite active here, who never post at all anymore, and I suspect it’s probably because they got tired of being shat on all the time. I know it’s why I quit posting. And now, we get this little situation. Opal, the very best of luck to you, dear; and I am truly sorry that this thing happened to you. It sounds to me sort of like being in a fight with the I.R.-SS-----you just might as well pay them the taxes you don’t owe, because they’re too big to fight. My advice to one and all: spend a few bucks and subscribe to Usenet. You’ll never be sorry that you did.
Benedicat vos Omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filio, et Spiritus Sanctus. So long, kids. It was fun, before it got corrupt and ugly. Take care.
Darnit, Pickman, you caught us.
This web site is part of the mass liberal conspiracy.
Well, why not rename str8dope.zzn.com STR8doPE.zzn.com and claim it should be pronounced, “Strength 8? Do P.E.”
That or “throat warbler mangrove”.
I get the feeling that everyone who played Dungeons & Dragons in high school are laughing their asses off, and everyone else is mildly confused.
Should have done this before now, but we had system problems. Anyway, since this thread mainly has to do with SDMB administration, I’m moving it to the BBQ Pit, the designated place for such discussions.
I did not “threaten to start my own message board.” I merely questioned why people would stay where they are being treated shabbily. Obviously we have different opinions of the quality of management of the board. I have no qualms with the moderators, however, the administration seems quite unprofessional.
Again, if you had read my post you would have realized that I never suggested I was going to open my own place. The internet is a big place with many message boards. Maybe a different one is a better place for me. My point was that Cecil’s columns are not what has kept me here thus far. I stay to interact with the vast majority of the regs. You know, the good ones who don’t resort to irrelevant personal attacks to make an argument.
True enough. It may not be in the Reader’s business interest to license Opal to use the words “The Straight Dope” on her web site. What’s disturbing is that no amicable solution was even attempted. I don’t think anyone even considered a compromise – instead the nasty letter was sent. If Ed et al just wanted Opal to remove the e-mail service, why didn’t they say so? Also, the communications posted from Ed et al in the past several days seem to indicate a disturbing lack of veracity on Ed’s part.
Yes, it is a business matter. My comments were that the Reader, in my opinion, is handling its business poorly. I am allowed to make observations on this subject, am I not?
And it is my business. I used to have access to Opal’s site. I no longer do. Something has been taken from me. If I want to complain about it, I shall.
I’m not sure what legal reasons those would be…
The Reader is certainly free to tell its side of the story. They haven’t yet. My take is that Ed and the management of the Reader don’t really give a crap what we think. That is fine. I really don’t value their opinion either.
Of course, I’m not hoping that Ed and his cohorts will buy my products or frequent my website. On at least some level, the opinion of the teeming millions is (or should be) important to the Reader. You certainly could not tell it from the administration of this board.
John, if you like it here and are satisfied with quality of service you receive, by all means stay. I’ll make my own decision. However, if I do continue to post here, I have two requests: First, read my posts and reply to what they actually say; Second, never, ever call me Frankie again.
Plunging like stones from a slingshot on Mars.
Bullshit.
Rich
(For the humor-impaired: yes, it was a joke.)
As I said earlier in this thread, I spent six weeks discussing this matter with Opal in an attempt to reach an amicable solution, starting in late September. I sent her a number of notes clearly explaining what we were asking; see my post in http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000377.html . I didn’t ask much, just that she stop offering something called “str8dope mail.” I didn’t ask her to take down the Teeming Millions Home Page. I never asked her to remove every instance of the words "Straight Dope.
Despite numerous letters over six weeks, there was no observable change. Opal continued to offer “str8dope mail.” When I queried her she said her E-mail provider had not responded to her messages. If that were the case she could simply have de-linked the page offering “str8dope mail” or put up some disclaimer, but to my knowledge, and I checked her site repeatedly, she never did.
Finally Opal posted a message on an unrelated thread reading in part as follows:
*Just as a reality check, a moderator committed what I consider to be borderline libel against a poster and Ed dropped to his knees to blow him for it, protecting him and closing the thread.
Ed has mishandled this site to a gross degree, as the feedback here shows…
I just think that the attitude of this site, and this board, and Ed in particular (thanks for the legal threats, Ed, but they still haven’t answered my repeated email) really stink.*
What can I tell you? I was fed up. Six weeks of polite notes had gotten me nowhere, so I kicked it upstairs to my boss at the Reader and he sent the more sternly worded note Opal has already quoted. And you know what? It got her off the frickin dime, which was more than I had managed to accomplish. I leave it to you who was acting reasonably in all of this.
As for my “disturbing lack of veracity” … you have some examples of this, maybe?
[Note: This message has been edited by Ed Zotti]
Thank you for responding, Ed. It shows a refreshing interest in the opinions of the teeming hundreds herein.
I don’t know that I can cite chapter and verse of the posts that led me to accuse you of a lack of veracity. In the “OpalCat vs. SD” thread, I understood you to say that you had only requested that she remove the e-mail service from her site. She later quoted a letter wherein you and/or your agents and attornies demanded that she remove all traces of “The Straight Dope” from her site. This made your first post disingenuous, to say the least. To the extent my impression was mistaken, I apologize.
Just now, I read the latest additions to this brouhaha (Geez, like we don’t ALL have more important things to worry about!) wherein you claim that you have been negotiating with Opal for six weeks on this issue and complain of her intransigence. This is a new fact to which the TM were not privy. Assuming this is true, it improves your position somewhat (at least in my opinion).
However, it does not change my opinion of the quality of the legal (and public relations) advice you are receiving. Yes, if you do not jealously protect your trademark right you are prone to losing them. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat. My position has always been that they other trademark protection methods which should have been explored. Maybe they were and maybe they weren’t. I’ll never know. To put it simply, you didn’t have to sacrifice your public relations on this board to protect your trademark rights. Whoever told you otherwise isn’t very shrewd. That observation was plain to me and many others of the TM. Why wasn’t it clear to you (or Cecil?)
Can you see why many of the regs here (who consider themselves SD loyalists) are somewhat offended by your attitude? That being said, thank you for responding to my diatribe. I expected no response (which speaks volumes, I think).
This will probably be my last post on this subject. I’m beginning to devote an absurd amount of attention to this, considering the other difficult issues I’m being paid to consider. However, I have an emotional attachment to this board and its participants. I used to consider Cecil, Ed, and The Reader a part of that community. Recent events have forced me to reexamine that opinion.
So it goes.
===========================================
…not to mention the fact that I’ve repeatedly told them that zzn.com owns
“str8dope.zzn.com” and that I can neither change nor delete it (though I’ve emailed
them several times to that end). I would really hope they wouldn’t want to just cut it
off anyway, depriving 30+ people of their email with no way of retrieving it. The plan
was to change it to tmmail or teemingmillions.zzn.com or something, but I can’t do that… yet they keep jumping on my back about it like crazed babboons.
:::muttering::: maybe I should trademark “Teeming Millions”…
O p a l C a t
[www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com)
===========================================
Um, nunna my biz and all, but did I hear you right the Email thing is out of your hands, OpalCat? And, you've requested the name be changed but no joy. Well I'm no lawyer, but you should be covered if you just document that. Something like:
-
Send a nice letter back to the CR legal dept telling them all about it, keep a copy, forward a copy to the Email provider at zzn.com.
-
Forward the CR legal dept request to zzn.com, keep a copy.
-
Confirmm to the CR legal dept that you forwarded their letter.
-
Repeat steps 2 & 3 every time they bug you about it.
That’s it, your work is done. You document that you gave it a reasonable try, the CR legal dept shows that they persistently pursued. I’m sure they don’t expect you to kick open a door and blow up the Email server.
Wouldn’t that do the trick? Now can I have my TMHP back? Huh? Huh?
Well, unlike ED here, I actually hfeel a sense of obligation to the people I am providing something for. To de-link the email would have A) made it harder for people to check their mail, while B) not really making a difference, as str8dope.zzn.com would still have been up and running for them to use. That being the case, I saw no reason to de-link.
Awww…did I hurt your feewings? Poor widdle baby.
Polite my ass, first off. Second, I had already AGREED to help you and had done everything I could to that end. I realize that your very tiny cranium has difficulty wrapping itself around these tough concepts, but try, please Ed, try.
What he didn’t tell you was that I agreed right away to look into how to oblige him. I sent MANY emails to the zzn.com people asking how to accomplish the name change, and only JUST YESTERDAY did I recieve a reply (see my post in the other thread). I have ALWAYS responded with cooperation to Mr. Tiny Brain, from the time years ago when I changed the title of the site from “The Straight Dope Teeming Millions Homepage” to “The Teeming Millions Homepage” to the current email situation.
When he harped on me over and over after I was already doing everything I could, yeah, I got snippy with him. That is my choice to do, and while it may be childish, it brings me personal satisfaction and made me giggle at the time.
–
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
Wow, so PM took a powder because some people refuse to bow to the superior wisdom of theism and the Catholic Church, neither of which has ever committed an act of terror or brutal slaughter, and in fact work tirelessly in concert to keep the marauding bands of amoral atheists from dragging God-Approved American Society into the gutter. And shame on those of you who defended secular society and the separation of church and state, while pointing out the abuses perpetrated in the name of religion as a counterpoint to PM’s “sacrifices to Quetzalcoatl” quip! How dare you!
Well, lotsa luck thinking you ain’t gonna find more of the same on Usenet, unless you’re only subscribed to alt.people.who.think.just.like.me .
“Come on, Phonics Monkey–drum!”
Okay, let’s summarize.
OpalCat has a website that has several mentions of the phrase “The Straight Dope” and has a connection to an e-mail service using a phrase similar to “The Straight Dope”.
Ed Zotti is a representative of The Chicago Reader which has trademarked the phrase “The Straight Dope”.
Ed and Opal spend six weeks corresponding on the subject of the e-mail service. The Chicago Reader did not wish the e-mail service to use the phrase “The Straight Dope”. Opal responded that she was unable to make the e-mail service alter the name. Therefore the two options that existed for the time being were to continue the service under its current name or sever connections with it. Opal wished to do the former and Ed wished to do the latter.
At this point, Mike Lennehan, another representative of the Chicago Reader sent a note to Opal requesting that she sever the connection with the e-mail service and also remove all other uses of the phrase “The Straight Dope” from her website. Opal, worried about legal reprecussions, closed down her site until it could be brought into compliance with this request. Opal states the e-mail service has now altered the name of the service.
So here are the questions;
Is all of the above essentially true?
Does the Chicago Reader object to all uses of “The Straight Dope” in Opal’s website or just to the use of it in the e-mail service?
If the Chicago Reader only objects to its use in the e-mail service is it now satisfied by the change in the name of the service?
If the Chicago Reader does not require OpalCat to remove all references to “The Straight Dope” from her website has it told her this?
Does the Chicago Reader feel licensing the use of the phrase to Opal for use on her website (as described by Frankd6) would be a valid possibility and sufficient defense of their trademark?
And, have I now managed to piss off everyone involved in this dispute?
<< Does the Chicago Reader feel licensing the use of the phrase to Opal for use on her website (as described by Frankd6) would be a valid possibility and sufficient defense of their trademark? >>
I do not speak for the READER, and I’m not speaking as a Moderator here, but just for myself. Given the hostility evident in Opal’s notes (whether “just for a giggle” as she contends or not), how can anyone plausibly suggest that the READER offer her a licensing arrangement?
Could I suggest that we find somebody to arbitrate or mediate this matter? A neutral? A panel of three? Somebody with some knowledge of the law, TSD, the site, and the parties, who can help come to a mutually satisfactory resolution?
Really, folks, there has to be a way to make this all work out. Right now all that’s happening is that there’s a lot of dirty linen being aired and a lot of badwill being generated.
Dex, I think your concerns are (probably) unwarranted. Opal stated that she was “snippy” “for a giggle,” not that she has taken any steps adverse to TSD or the Reader for reasons of same. It sounds like this is (another!) case of miscommunication. Based on what Opal and Ed are both saying in this and the related thread (any way we could consolidate them?)I’m thinking that what may have happened here is that neither side communicated well with the other about what the exact concerns were, and what the difficulties were in responding to these concerns.
For heavens sake! Bring in a third party to resolve these issues without anybody going to court, and without further rancor, and let’s move on and get back to business.
-Melin
Why need a third party?
It seems like everything is settled.
Opal changed the email name, as Ed asked.
Ed said it was ok for Opal to have straight dope on her pages, as long as it wasn’t the title.
Seems like things are good now.
Its time to eat cotton candy.
pat
Opal’s Catholic?
Rich
My question is, why should they? If I had a trademark that I was trying to protect, I wouldn’t offer a licensing agreement to anyone who I didn’t think was going to be 100% positive about the product 100% of the time. That’s clearly not the case here, and it wasn’t the case before this particular issue saw the light of day.
Rich
Unfortunately there is some ill will being generated right now by this dispute and I foresee it will get a lot worse if things continue as they are going (ie a series of postings directed at winning the support of uninvolved third parties rather than being aimed at resolving the actual issues of the dispute). But I’d like to think there is a realistic chance of a amicable settlement here. Obviously, in general, The Chicago Reader approves of the existence of The Teeming Millions Homepage and OpalCat approves of the existence of The Straight Dope. So ideally neither of them is seeking to harm or defame the other. The Chicago Reader has a valid concern about protecting the integrity of their trademark property and Opal has a valid concern about minimizing the disruption of her site. It appears that the Chicago Reader considers the alteration of the name of the email service to be sufficient action and that this alteration has been made. If this is true, it should be possible for everyone now involved to state that this issue is resolved and OpalCat can reopen her site as it currently exists without fear of legal actions.