# Who'd win: Yoda vs Kosh **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178 "2011-10-10T14:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/21 "2011-10-11T03:08:18Z")
From jms: \*They [Centauri] believe in a variety of afterlives; the god you worship, of the centauri pantheon, holds dominion over a given “heaven” or afterworld. If you appease the god sufficiently during life, it will accept you into that afterworld, in preparation for the day when all heavens are united; if not, you will have to be reborn and choose another until one accepts you. Londo saw what he said he saw.\* ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/22 "2011-10-11T03:45:21Z")
Which prompts the question…was Londo an atheist? > [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Hope I’m not going too far off-topic. Not at all. It’s meant to be a fun thread, anything tangentially relevant to Kosh, Yoda, B5, or Star Wars is fair game as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/23 "2011-10-11T03:48:30Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Which prompts the question…was Londo an atheist? Hmm, Londo fits the profile, an amoral hedonist bent on genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/24 "2011-10-11T04:04:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Hmm, Londo fits the profile, an amoral hedonist bent on genocide. He’s a horrible person, so he’s an atheist? Oh, this’ll end well. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/25 "2011-10-11T04:14:20Z")
Yoda would see him as a midiclorian (whatever the fuck that is) and use him to move heavy stuff with his mind. Kosh would be Yoda’s bitch. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/26 "2011-10-11T04:25:43Z")
Honestly, who knows. Londo is a deeply troubled person caught in the middle of so many webs he never had a chance to escape. (It’s kinda hilarious to me that B5’s greatest schemer was largely helpless, as everybody in the damn universe seems to have been messing with him.) Was he an atheist? Maybe. I doubt he ever gave it much thought. The Centauri, like the Romans, were creatures of ritual, and their religion was a religion of ritual (very awesome rituals, too 😃 ). Deep down, he doesn’t seem to believe much, but he also saw real prophecy by priestesses. He may have been responding to the nihilism he battled with over the course of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/27 "2011-10-11T05:15:58Z")
The answer is “Yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/28 "2011-10-11T05:27:36Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > He’s a horrible person, so he’s an atheist? Oh, this’ll end well. Dude, I’m the atheist, atheist who ever athed. It were a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/29 "2011-10-11T06:25:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Dude, I’m the atheist, atheist who ever athed. > > It were a joke. It’s hard to tell one from t’other these days, ya know. Poe’s law rules the virtual landscape. Should’ve kept my trap shut anyway, as the thread might’ve gone off the rails. Apologies to all. Londo was a complicated character though, and one of the reasons why B5 was so freakin’ great. He wasn’t a horrible guy, and even so, his plans and decisions led him down a dark path that resulted in millions, if not billions, of deaths. That scene when the mass drivers were pummeling Narn as he stood and watched through the windows - HE was responsible for that, and you could see how quietly, desperately horrified he was. Londo’s fall, and his work to redeem himself - it’s as if he’s some sort of larger-than-life Shakespearean archetype that I can’t quite put my finger on. Maybe I shoud’ve paid more attention in class. Speaking of Shakespearean, G’Kar. Who the hell expected Sid the Snitch and the one-armed man to turn in these kind of performances? Any time either were on-screen, I knew I was in for a good time. Any time BOTH were on-screen, I sat up and paid very close attention. I’ve got to get my disks out and watch it again. Seasons two through four anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/30 "2011-10-11T14:14:56Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I Everyone who saw Kosh that day had a name for what they were seeing, except for Londo Mollari, who saw nothing. Hope I’m not going too far off-topic. Thinking about this some more…what did Vir see? Or was he even present? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/31 "2011-10-11T14:27:01Z")
The Centauri had gods for every occasion: gods by the bushel, gods by the pound. I’m sure Vir, untouched by the Shadows as he was, saw one of the benificent ones. If he was there, which I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/32 "2011-10-11T14:28:29Z")
Oh, and Kosh would take down Yoda in a heart beat if he chose. **Chronos** stated it perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/33 "2011-10-11T14:47:41Z")
Sorry to post for the third time in a row, but it occurs to me that Kosh is more on a par with Gandalf. Who would win there, or would they even choose to do battle? Of course, their lengendaria are completely mutually incompatible, but hey, this is a message board full of fantasy scholars. I have great faith in your abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/34 "2011-10-11T15:02:10Z")
Kosh is a senior diplomat in the service of a major interstellar empire. He has a ship, and his government has many, many warships. Yoda has himself alone. At the end of the day, it’s no contest. Kosh wins, overwhelmingly. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/35 "2011-10-11T15:09:27Z")
I’d always assumed that it was Londo who caused Londo not to see anything. Whether that came from atheism, agnosticism, corruption by the Shadows, simple cynicism, materialism or whatever. I’ve always assumed that any random Centauri would see some spiritual figure from their religion when they saw a Vorlon, and Londo’s reaction was an individual one. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/36 "2011-10-11T15:11:34Z")
> [@Anamorphic](#): > > Yoda. I have based this decision on the fact that I’ve actually heard of Yoda. Concur. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/37 "2011-10-11T15:13:15Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Kosh is a senior diplomat in the service of a major interstellar empire. He has a ship, and his government has many, many warships. Empires, ships, and governments are irrelevant. This is a cage match. Two beings enter, one being leaves. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/38 "2011-10-11T16:29:38Z")
Chalk me up as another who thinks that Londo’s not seeing Kosh was an individual thing. First of all, I can’t imagine that the Vorlons missed contacting any sentient race in the Galaxy. And second, even if they had, I expect that a member of such a race would just see a nondescript being of light-- That much of the manifestation, at least, seemed to be common to everyone, so the conditioning was probably just filling in details. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/39 "2011-10-11T17:01:18Z")
Maybe the Vorlons visited Centauri Prime, but they revealed themselves to the Xon instead. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178/40 "2011-10-12T21:58:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Maybe the Vorlons visited Centauri Prime, but they revealed themselves to the Xon instead. I’m sorry they never explored the Xon more. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Thinking about this some more…what did Vir see? Or was he even present? To the best of my memory, Vir wasn’t there. Too bad, as that would have answered some of our questions. Perhaps JMS did that on purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whod-win-yoda-vs-kosh/599178.md?page=1)