# Whom does a land belong to? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129 "2011-11-07T02:26:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/21 "2011-11-07T17:09:14Z")
Ah…I see what this is about now. [QUOTE=The Sheikh] Do you think jews have the right to be citezens in palestine just because their ancestors were? [/QUOTE] Nope (and though you didn’t ask, the Jordanians living in ‘palestine’ probably don’t have any right to ‘be citezens’ simply because their ancestors were in the region either)…they have the ‘right’ to be citizens of Israel, however, since they won those ‘rights’ through force of arms (the Jordanians are more problematic, but no one, including you, seems to question their ‘right’ to large portions of the former Palestine provincial territories). Pretty much exactly the same reason why every other nation on earth exists and why their citizens have the ‘right’ to live where they live. > [@](#): > > Do you think native americans and austrailians have the right to expel current citezens because its their land? I supposed they could try. There is no ‘right’…there is ability. They no more have the ability of tossing out the current squatters on ‘their’ lands than the Palestinians have of tossing the Israelis out…or getting large swaths of ‘their’ land back from the Jordanians. > [@](#): > > Why should a country so small and rich in its resources keep these resources for a small population and not share them? I have no idea what you are getting at here. Which country is ‘so small and rich in its resources’? How are they keeping those resources for ‘a small population and not share them’? -XT ETA: or what Lemur866 said. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/22 "2011-11-07T17:11:43Z")
The guy with the biggest stick. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/23 "2011-11-07T17:13:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are rock-strewn lands a resource? If you like rocks, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/24 "2011-11-07T17:19:16Z")
What are citezens? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/25 "2011-11-07T17:20:12Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > The guy with the biggest stick. You know who else had a big stick? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/26 "2011-11-07T17:22:00Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Do you think jews have the right to be citezens in palestine just because their ancestors were? > Do you think native americans and austrailians have the right to expel current citezens because its their land? > Why should a country so small and rich in its resources keep these resources for a small population and not share them? I’m not aware that anyone is a citizen of palestine, so this question doesn’t really make sense. Native Americans can expel people from the land that they own in the same way as any other landowner in America. I’m not familiar with how things work in Austraila. Native Americans and Australians lost land to a bunch of people a long time ago. But Gaul lost territory to Rome and Byzantium to the Ottomans. Not to mention all of the land Lithuania lost to Prussia. Land has frequently changed hands due to conquest - not as much any more, but to assume that we need to try to figure all the conquests that ever took place and then undue them is silly. It’s also silly to try to pick between all of the conquests and say this one counts but this one doesn’t. Reality is messy business. Why does anyone not share anything? It’s typically because they feel like it rightfully belongs to them and they want or need it. Resources are limited, desires are not. The world will never be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/27 "2011-11-07T17:25:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You know who else had a big stick? It’s either Teddy Roosevelt or Ron Jeremy… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/28 "2011-11-07T17:25:43Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > The guy with the biggest stick. That’s _not_ my stick. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/29 "2011-11-07T17:26:25Z")
Rabbit in your pocket then? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/30 "2011-11-07T17:32:08Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > That’s _not_ my stick. We know it was you wot dun it, tough guy. We’ve got witnesses who place the stick in your hands at the time the land was stolen. Just make it easy on yourself and own up. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/31 "2011-11-07T17:43:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You know who else had a big stick? I’m not sure what that “else” in there implies about my reputation. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/32 "2011-11-07T19:30:50Z")
Reported for promoting illegal drug use. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/33 "2011-11-07T19:47:46Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Do you think jews have the right to be citezens in palestine just because their ancestors were? Those who don’t want them to live in Palestine have failed spectacularly. So yes. > [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Do you think native americans and austrailians have the right to expel current citezens because its their land? It’s not their land, they lost. They can try to get it all back if they want but they’ll only meet with failure. > [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Why should a country so small and rich in its resources keep these resources for a small population and not share them? Because they won and their selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/34 "2011-11-07T22:06:04Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Why should a country so small and rich in its resources keep these resources for a small population and not share them? Well, examine [this list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density) of countries sorted by population density. The first nation of significant area and population is #9, Bangladesh. I’m assuming you wouldn’t say _they_ were rich in resources, nor its population small, so I’m curious how far one would have to go down the list to find a country you’d consider selfish. 1. Israel, at 371/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 2. The U.K., at 255/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 3. Germany, at 229/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 4. The United States, at 32/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 5. Russia, at 8.3/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 6. Canada, at 3.4/km[sup]2[/sup] ? 7. Australia, at 3/km[sup]2[/sup] ? I’m a little hard-pressed to picture Israel as rich in resources, but the U.S. certainly is, and Canada ridiculously is, for the populations they support. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/35 "2011-11-07T22:09:18Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Reported for promoting illegal drug use. :eek: It’s not a syringe, I’m just glad to see you! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/36 "2011-11-07T23:19:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What are citezens? Dopers whose posts consist, in entirety, of the word “Cite?” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/37 "2011-11-07T23:23:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What is “palestine”? Variant name for Iceland, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Sheikh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Sheikh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Sheikh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/38 "2011-11-08T00:08:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What is “palestine”? Palestine is a name of a hard test where human values can be evaluated. > [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > Simple question. And I don’t mean Whom it belongs to according to the current global laws. I mean whom it should belong to? I think that you all skipped the word “SHOULD”. I don’t want you to explain the complications of politics for me. I know politics is about power. Ethics is only a makeup in politics. And that’s not what I want to discuss. Ethics is what I want to discuss. How would your “Utopia” look like? What would be the fairest way of distributing land and resources among the people of earth? And would somebody please explain the talk about “sticks” to me? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/39 "2011-11-08T00:49:10Z")
Heck, my utopia (or at least a big step toward it) is that everyone stops caring about religious differences because religion has ceased to have any political value. Everyone lives in places that have strong (but amendable) constitutional systems that make no mention of gods, with responsive, incorruptible courts that resolve differences as peacefully and equitably as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129/40 "2011-11-08T00:58:06Z")
> [@The\_Sheikh](#): > > And would somebody please explain the talk about “sticks” to me? Well, Revenant Threshold said “[The land belongs to the] guy with the biggest stick”, i.e. the land belongs to who has sufficient weapons to keep out all others. Other posters are just playing around with the phrase, since it reminds them of a quote by Teddy Roosevelt, who said of diplomacy: “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far,” by which he meant negotiate peacefully, but don’t make a secret of the fact that you have weapons and are prepared to use them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-does-a-land-belong-to/602129.md?page=3)