# Whom killed grammar? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677 "2012-09-04T20:17:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/1 "2012-09-04T20:17:05Z")
Me and my brother was trying to figure out how come a typical American don’t know jack about their language, can’t gets shit to agree with shinola, can’t figure out where one sentence ends and another starts, how every American we heard speak couldn’t keep their tenses straight its a miracle anyone can figure out what they’re trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/2 "2012-09-04T20:26:19Z")
Twas the grammarians who killed their own goose. Favoring obscure rules over understanding caused us unwashed types to disregard the rules altogether. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/3 "2012-09-04T20:29:42Z")
It’s human nature to change grammar and vocabulary. Else we’d still be speaking proto-Indo-European (or something even older). It’s a feature, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/4 "2012-09-04T20:52:30Z")
Grammar’s still alive and well. She just hasn’t been out of the house much since grampa died. ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/5 "2012-09-04T20:59:48Z")
My favorite Venture Brothers [joke](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOLkslA6XK4): HENCHMAN #21: “Gentlemen, choose your weapons.” HENCHMAN #24: “Is this them?” HENCHMAN #21: “‘Are these they?’” HENCHMAN #24: “Who talks like that?” MONARCH: “Out of the way! I am the leader here; I will distribute the – ffflahh. Are these they?” I’m still waiting for the perfect chance to ask someone “who talks like that?” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/6 "2012-09-04T21:09:59Z")
Ever watch an old movie? Know how they talk all stilted and shit? Guess what…that’s really how people talked. Your grandparents thought your grammar sucked, too. Remember, when Shakespeare was alive, no one was studying Shakespeare, they were just watching the latest fun show. Oh, sure, he was good at a turn of phrase, but the basic grammar and 95% of the words he used were pretty standard for the time. He was Stephen King crossed with Maya Angelou in terms of public appeal and comprehensibility, not someone who had to be picked apart with a dictionary in one hand and a history book in the other. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/7 "2012-09-04T21:13:38Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Me and my brother was trying to figure out how come a typical American don’t know jack about their language, can’t gets shit to agree with shinola, can’t figure out where one sentence ends and another starts, how every American we heard speak couldn’t keep their tenses straight its a miracle anyone can figure out what they’re trying to say. It’s not clear what exactly the problem is. Whatever you think it is, do you think Americans are different from anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/8 "2012-09-04T21:29:37Z")
Whom did it, is all I’m asking. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/9 "2012-09-04T21:33:15Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. Hitler. It’s always Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/10 "2012-09-04T21:40:38Z")
Grammar is descriptive, not prescriptive. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/11 "2012-09-04T22:04:48Z")
Welcome to Obama’s America. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/12 "2012-09-04T22:19:52Z")
Oh, im pretty sure Bush had the jump on him when it came to “killing” grammar ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/13 "2012-09-04T22:21:08Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. Thou. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/14 "2012-09-04T22:37:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. The butler? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/15 "2012-09-04T22:51:57Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. Everyone using the language, including you, strange affectations and all. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/16 "2012-09-04T23:03:20Z")
Is this a trick like **umkay**? Is **grammar** about to post that it isn’t dead after all? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/17 "2012-09-04T23:53:46Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. Video. Oh, wait—that’s what killed the radio star. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/18 "2012-09-05T00:26:34Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Whom did it, is all I’m asking. Who did it, then went on to play first base. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/19 "2012-09-05T00:28:10Z")
Having read a lot of history, I’m not sure that the _average_ person’s knowledge of grammar is worse than it was, say, 100 years ago, when many people didn’t even finish high school. What _does_ amaze me is how many “educated” people write badly, and then go on the defensive when you point it out to them. To write well, and in a manner not subject to misinterpretation, requires that certain rules be followed, like it or not. And anyone with a reasonably good grasp of the language should be able to tell good writing from bad. Some things can be overlooked as matters of style, but when a college graduate doesn’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re,” that’s just pathetic. This can be attributed partly to the influence of television, I suppose, but I’ve never felt that watching the tube had any great effect on my English. Maybe it depends on what you watch. Textbooks at all levels have been getting dumber with each passing decade, which is reprehensible. A college education is now the equivalent of what a high school education used to be. Those who go beyond either do so largely on their own initiative. Electronic communications (chat rooms and the like) have done a lot to degrade language skills, partly because of the company that’s kept in them. You don’t have to write effectively to hobnob with people who are on your level. Do I talk the same way I write? A lot of the time, yes. Maybe not when I talk to my dog and cat, but almost always with my daughter, students, and colleagues. If you don’t already know, I’ve worked in three areas that require (or ought to require) above-average language skills: publishing, broadcasting, and education. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677/20 "2012-09-05T00:36:50Z")
Maybe people that use “that” instead of “who” done it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whom-killed-grammar/633677.md?page=2)