# Whoo! Go Franken! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963 "2009-08-01T06:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/41 "2009-08-01T19:55:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > But of course, in your worldview, rich people are always benevolent sheerly by view of their wealth. I’m not sure exactly what this means, but it seems you think I believe that “rich people good, poor people bad.” I assure you that that is the farthest thing from the truth. All I said is that it’s not like it’s possible for someone else to make money if only Pickens would stop taking it all for himself. The world is not a fixed pie that is divvied up among people. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/42 "2009-08-01T20:02:10Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This is absolutely ridiculous. When people make money, they don’t take it from other people. True, but they do often remove the opportunity to make that money. If I take a job, then that is a job that someone else does not have. Of course this gets much more wishy-washy when you get into investments and backing, where i’d imagine a billionaire would likely be plying their trade, and opportunity is no longer a zero-sum game. But still, opportunity isn’t an unlimited resource. Too, making money doesn’t always mean making value, and by the same token that someone else might not be able to make the money that has been foregone, Pickens might not elect to leverage the money he does make in order to increase its value - too, money might be more valuable to someone with less of it. Really, the only _guaranteed_ benefit I can think of for one over the other would be in your line of work. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/43 "2009-08-01T21:20:02Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > yeah, what’s wrong with Senator Kerry? Not too good at getting elected, but altogether a decent human and patriot. Not too good about paying taxes and he lied about seeing war atrocities so his patriotism is greatly lacking in that department too. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/44 "2009-08-01T21:23:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not too good about paying taxes and he lied about seeing war atrocities so his patriotism is greatly lacking in that department too. Cites? And hell, he actually went to Vietnam, something lacking in Georgie Boy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/45 "2009-08-01T21:31:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Cites? And hell, he actually went to Vietnam, something lacking in Georgie Boy. Well, if GWB is the metric by which you wish to measure Kerry, Bush did better in school and got elected to the Presidency twice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/46 "2009-08-01T21:37:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Pickens deserves a fucking medal. He saved us from a detestable human being. Ask somebody from New Orleans how saved they feel. If there happen to be any in your area. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/47 "2009-08-01T21:39:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Really? You think this was the first thing he did? You think it was his first priority? > > Sad. No actually, I’m sure his first priority was learning the ropes to make sure he could get in line for money from varying lobbyist, just like the other politicians from either party. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/48 "2009-08-01T21:43:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ask somebody from New Orleans how saved they feel. If there happen to be any in your area. Oh, I forgot about that. How Bush summoned the mighty waters to descend on N.O. and how he made sure none of the buses in the evacuation plan were used. Also, see Post 45. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/49 "2009-08-01T22:07:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, I forgot about that. How Bush summoned the mighty waters to descend on N.O. and how he made sure none of the buses in the evacuation plan were used. Ok. So you are suggesting Bush’s lack of involvement after the did not make the situation more complicated, and the fact that the emergency management agency was run by an unqualified peon who got the job because he raised money for Bush, was not the problem? > [@](#): > > Also, see Post 45. I was not comparing Bush to Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/50 "2009-08-01T22:13:01Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > No actually, I’m sure his first priority was learning the ropes to make sure he could get in line for money from varying lobbyist, just like the other politicians from either party. You seem quite confused. If his goal was to get in line for money, then getting in an ideologically-driven smack down with a billionaire wasn’t really the way to go. Do you have an actual point? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/51 "2009-08-01T22:22:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You seem quite confused. If his goal was to get in line for money, then getting in an ideologically-driven smack down with a billionaire wasn’t really the way to go. Well, unless your interests aren’t aligned with that particular billionaire, in which case getting in an ideologically-driven smack down with that billionaire isn’t likely to cost you much, but is likely to make people who _are_ ideologically aligned more inclined to give, and at the least declares your positions of some points. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/52 "2009-08-01T22:23:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You seem quite confused. If his goal was to get in line for money, then getting in an ideologically-driven smack down with a billionaire wasn’t really the way to go. What, you think Pickens is the only game in town? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/53 "2009-08-01T22:23:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ok. So you are suggesting Bush’s lack of involvement after the did not make the situation more complicated, and the fact that the emergency management agency was run by an unqualified peon who got the job because he raised money for Bush, was not the problem? I’m no fan of Bush, and don’t think brownie was the right man for the job. It is an unknown as to what would be different if the right man for the job was in the position. > [@Marley23](#): > > I was not comparing Bush to Kerry. Sure you were. [QUOTE=Me] Pickens deserves a fucking medal. He saved us from a detestable human being. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=You] Ask somebody from New Orleans how saved they feel. If there happen to be any in your area. [/QUOTE] Reread the exchange. Why else would you bring up Katrina? This thread has nothing to do with Bush or Katrina. You’re assuming Kerry would have been better than Bush. Even at Katrina. Look at the OP. It’s about Franken, Pickens, and the Swift Boat Vets that saved us from Kerry. so, back to Post 45 I send thee. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/54 "2009-08-01T22:40:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It is an unknown as to what would be different if the right man for the job was in the position. There are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknowns, and I think it’s a known known that letting a city flood due to incompetence and then sitting with your thumb up your ass, which is essentially what Bush did, is on the list of great crimes that has happened in the U.S. Not all of the blame is his, I agree. I don’t know what Kerry would have done. But the buck stopped with Bush. (Come to think of it, considering what happened with the economy I think this statement can now be taken literally.) If you’re the president and you can’t do anything for several days while a large city floods, you might as well quit because without that bare minimum of protection, there is essentially no point in having a government at all, particularly one with such an idiot at the top. Unfortunately this is now the primary defense of the Bush years: “Hey, somebody else might have fucked up this badly too!” 😛 > [@](#): > > Sure you were. I was pointing out that perhaps not everybody felt “saved” by Pickens. Like people who lost their homes in a flood and then had to rely on Bush’s administration for help. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/55 "2009-08-01T22:41:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I must admit I was giggling when I cast my ballot for her. Okay, this is killing me. Which ‘her’ are you talking about here? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/56 "2009-08-01T22:42:36Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > Okay, this is killing me. Which ‘her’ are you talking about here? He appears to be saying he voted for Cindy Sheehan when she ran against Pelosi. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/57 "2009-08-02T01:04:18Z")
Getting back on topic, I’m sorry, but it’s an asshole move by Franken no matter who you voted for in 2004. If he can’t be civil to people who hold opposing points of view, he’s a dick. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/58 "2009-08-02T01:05:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He appears to be saying he voted for Cindy Sheehan when she ran against Pelosi. I would’ve too. Nancy Pelosi is kind of an useless moron. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/59 "2009-08-02T01:18:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, if GWB is the metric by which you wish to measure Kerry, Bush did better in school and got elected to the Presidency twice. 😉 Yeah, about that. We know Cheney got him into the Presidency. Who wrote W’s term papers? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963/60 "2009-08-02T01:40:45Z")
There is considerable distance between an honest difference of political opinion and the sort of slime Pickens supported. Democracy has no greater enemies than cynicism and apathy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whoo-go-franken/504963.md?page=4)