# Who's a Moderate and who isn't? (Political thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2001, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670 "2001-01-18T10:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mx-6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4da419/32.png) [@mx-6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mx-6)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/21 "2001-01-21T04:01:15Z")
“All Democrats are ‘moderate’ by definition.” Isn’t that the same as saying that all moderates are Democrats by definition? Hmm? Not even close. Democrats are left “by definition.” Republicans are right “by definition.” Of course there is the extreme left and right which are reffered to as radicals. The media often misrepresents these “definitions” though. So I can understand that you would believe that the Democrats are moderate since this is what most of the media would like you to believe. That way anything slightly republican is radical. As if GW Bush is a Radical, therefore Ashcroft must be extremely radical. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/22 "2001-01-21T06:43:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadarene \* > My point is that people whose belief system places them squarely in the middle of the mainstream ideological spectrum can still be as partisan, unyielding, and _im_moderate as the most dogmatic liberal or conservative–_vis a vis_ Thomas Friedman’s unswerving devotion to the free market, expressed to the point of [sneering condescension](http://www.fair.org/extra/0007/imf-magenta.html) towards anyone with divergent points of view. _Great_ example. I care less about whether the analyst is centrist and more about whether they are fair minded (I suppose it may be the reverse for my elected representatives.) One test of being fair minded is whether you honestly try to present the point of view of those you disagree with. The Economist magazine does a pretty good job of that IMO. Another test is whether you point out simplistic or confused thinking on all ends of the political spectrum. Paul Krugman comes to mind in this context. Still, there are those who are more ideological who are still worth reading. The conservative columnist Safire sometimes leaves some inconvenient facts out (eg. in his passionate espousal of a missile defense system as a protection against rogue states, he has ignored the possibility of bomb smuggling and other simpler delivery systems) but he’s not afraid to attack Republican administrations (“hit them when they’re up”, he says.) On the left, I’ve admired Bob Herbert’s defense of some of the less fortunate and less noticed of society’s members. Finally, let’s not forget that centrists by European standards would be considered liberal in the US. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/23 "2001-01-21T09:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > The Economist magazine does a pretty good job of that IMO. Do they have a readily-available, informative website, or am I going to have to sign up for a subscription? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/24 "2001-01-21T09:47:40Z")
Spoofe: [http://www.economist.com](http://www.economist.com) Access to most, but not all, of the articles requires a print subscription. (Try getting a student discount if you become hooked -about $65 per year, 51 issues). ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/25 "2001-01-21T20:19:38Z")
I’ll second the recommendation of _The Economist_, **SPOOFE**. It’s based in London, as well, so it offers a considered outsider’s perspective of our domestic squabbles. It’s also the thing to read if you want to be up on what’s going on internationally–I hope I’m not being too critical of my country if I say that even the best of U.S. newspapers and magazines do a pretty poor job of covering the rest of the world. I definitely second **flowbark’s** really good post. “Fair minded” is a really good characterization. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/26 "2001-01-21T21:57:57Z")
mx-6 said: > [@](#): > > “All Democrats are ‘moderate’ by definition.” > > Isn’t that the same as saying that all moderates are Democrats by definition? While I disagree with the person who said that, the answer to your question of “Isn’t that the same” is No. All apples are fruits. However, not all fruits are apples. > [@](#): > > Democrats are left “by definition.” Republicans are right “by definition.” Nope. As a whole, or on average, the Dems are further to the left and the Repubs are further to the right. But not “by definition.” In the last Illinois gubernatorial election, the Dem was further to the right than the Repub. There are some Dems who push traditionally right-wing causes and some Repubs who push traditionally left-wing causes. (Often these are on the more local level.) ---
**Author:** ![Felice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Felice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felice)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2001, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/27 "2001-01-21T22:07:13Z")
If a moderate is one who is in between the extremes, or who considers input from both sides of the issue in order to make decisions, would it help this debate to try defining what the extremes are? What characteristics define someone who is ‘leftist’ versus ‘rightist’? Let’s leave the Democratic platform and the Republican platform out of it for the moment, since they’ll just confuse matters. Then maybe we can find someone who approaches from the middle, in order to address the OP question. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2001, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/28 "2001-01-22T08:51:26Z")
Honestly, I don’t know how much that would help, **Felice** –as I mentioned, centrists (people between the left and the right) can be pretty immoderate too, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/29 "2001-01-23T05:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > What characteristics define someone who is ‘leftist’ versus ‘rightist’? I wouldn’t know how to satisfactorily answer that. I’m thinking about it, but in the meantime I wanted you to know that you’re not being ignored. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670/30 "2001-01-23T05:50:16Z")
Here’s a stab: Righties come in a couple of flavors. The libertarian branch of the Republican party prefers lower taxes and (therefore) lower federal spending, except for military spending which they like. These folks are sometimes called economic conservatives or (to use a term from the 1980s) supply siders. So called economic conservatives should be distinguished from “fiscal conservatives”, those who like low budget deficits or higher surpluses, but today these folks really aren’t conservative _per se_: many Democrats give themselves this sort of label. Rubin and Kasich are examples of fiscal conservatives. Social conservatives are anti-abortion, anti gun control and pro-death penalty. Of course most Americans are pro-death penalty as well. (Pro-choice law and order Republicans from Southern California used to call themselves “Pro-Death” for a while). Lefties are more sympathetic to governmental regulation and more sympathetic to using taxes and transfers to equalize the distribution of income. Popular points of agitation concern poverty, the environment and oppressive corporations. Disclaimer: Many will be unhappy with these rough characterizations. I’m sure they could theoretically be delivered in more neutral (ie boring) language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-a-moderate-and-who-isnt-political-thread/50670.md?page=1)