# Who's afraid of the Christian Fascists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984 "2005-05-01T22:44:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/21 "2005-05-02T04:32:31Z")
FYI, here’s a short, apparently unbiased Wikipedia article on “Dominionism,” of which there are apparently several variants: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism) And one on the especially-scary branch of Dominionism known as “Christian Reconstructionism”: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian\_Reconstructionism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/22 "2005-05-02T05:38:04Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I, for one, am terrified of them. > > It’s been a very long five months since the election. Yeah, what with the dozens of new religious laws passed by Congress, who wouldn’t be terrified? :dubious: I’m with **'luci** on this one. As disturbing as some of these folks can be, most Americans like a reasonably high wall of seperation between church and state. The rise of “Christian Fascism” makes a great story for people who revel in disaster scenarios, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/23 "2005-05-02T06:03:18Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > There will be. Do not let your hearts be troubled, my friends. This is simply a phase. > > Our country has historically gone through waves of conservatism and religious fervor and then liberalism and secularization. Politicians, being what they are, parrot the current fads, but rarely do much to actually change things in the direction the poplace desires. Indeed, and this current wave of conservatism was entirely predictable. Step back five, ten, twenty, forty years ago and compare. At what point in US history did homosexuals have more rights than they do now? At what point in US history was abortion ever more widely availible and socially accepted than now? At what point in US history was there more tolerance of sexual or profane content in mass media than now? At what point in US history were sabbath laws less influential than they are now? If the Christian fascists are trying to take over, they’re doing a piss-poor job. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/24 "2005-05-02T06:06:02Z")
[QUOTE=furt] At what point in US history was there more tolerance of sexual or profane content in mass media than now?QUOTE] Pretty much any time between 1970 and 2000. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/25 "2005-05-02T06:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] > [@furt](#): > > At what point in US history was there more tolerance of sexual or profane content in mass media than now?QUOTE] > > Pretty much any time between 1970 and 2000. Oh? Back when “damn” was unacceptable on network TV? Back when Mike and Carol Brady slept in twin beds? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/26 "2005-05-02T06:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=furt] > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh? Back when “damn” was unacceptable on network TV? Back when Mike and Carol Brady slept in twin beds? No cite, but I remember reading quite recently a comment by a network exec that a classic episode of _Seinfeld_ (where the characters make a bet to see how long they can go without masturbating) could never be broadcast in the present climate. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/27 "2005-05-02T06:47:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Don’t yet feel really threatened, we won’t know until they over reach themselves. Haven’t yet, haven’t forced anything that much affects the greater mass of people, nor threatens the interests of business. True - so far so good. But that’s what the falling man said as he passed the 10th story of a 50 story building. Isn’t it safe to assume that once the Republicans fully control all three branches of government you’ll see much more radical policies being instituted than right now? In my humble (though maybe paranoid) opininion (IMHPO) they’re not making policy right now so much as positioning their chess pieces on the board. Systematically picking off all potential opposition. You’ll notice the full frontal assault against the judiciary they’re currently engaged in (veiled threats of violence and all). And the attack on the filibuster which would allow them to push through their judicial nominations rapidly. Why would they be doing that unless they wanted to pass laws that would be thrown out as unconstitutional with the current judiciary - moderate as it is right now? You seem to be of that public opinion will restrain the zealots. I don’t know. The media’s been pretty ineffectual as a watchdog lately, and I think that a government without internal opposition will be able to do a hell of a lot of damage before people start noticing anything. The only question is which Republicans’ policies will win out? To me the really scary reality of this whole scenario is that the only people I see stopping the Christian Right is the political right. I don’t see how the democrats are even going to make a dent. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/28 "2005-05-02T07:02:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No cite, but I remember reading quite recently a comment by a network exec that a classic episode of _Seinfeld_ (where the characters make a bet to see how long they can go without masturbating) could never be broadcast in the present climate. So we have one network exec saying that there has been a tightening in the last two or three years, versus the overwhelming trend of many decades. That’s somewhat akin to being worried the stock market is going to collapse because it’s been flat this quarter. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/29 "2005-05-02T10:18:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Six of one… > > Don’t yet feel really threatened, we won’t know until they over reach themselves. Haven’t yet, haven’t forced anything that much affects the greater mass of people, nor threatens the interests of business. > > Ten Commandment statues? Really, who cares. Its a theoretical argument at best, if $10.95 of the county budget spent maintaining the 10 Com statue in the park is a violation of church/state. Referring to God in the Pledge? Once again, symbolism only. Sure, its wrong, but wrong enough to fight over? Much bigger facists to fry. > > As for gay marriage, I think that most people accept the media-inspired illusion that gays _already_ have a rough parity with the rest of society. This same illusion is shared by the Godgoons, to their shock, horror and dismay. But in the first instance, it moves to apathy and a bit of a sense of hey! you got it good, don’t press your luck. (Besides, _we’re_ married, and you aint missing much…) > > For all the hysteria and hyperbole, they haven’t had that much impact on American society as a whole, the Golden Age of Ozzie and Harriet ain’t coming back. Throwing a conniption fit over Ms. Jacksons gilded titty was a media event: transient, vacuous, and ultimately irrelevent. They cannot afford to look silly, and they cannot help but. > > Maybe I’ll start worrying about the time the local university starts accepting c.v.'s for the Chair of the Rapture Studies Department. > > Of course, there’s always the chance of a schism, a mass desertion of the Pubbies in favor of a charismatic and dogmatic leader. Now, Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good pantheist… Just a short note on the Ten Commandments…Have you ever seen the Ten commandments posted in front of any churches? I have looked and haven’t seen any in the areas that I have been…it makes me wonder…Do they just want non- believers to keep the commandments, or would they rather not be reminded; if they are keeping them themselves? The commandments are not broken out of ignorance; Otherwise one would never read about a priest, Sunday school teacher,minister or rabbi doing any wrong, or a( so called “good” Christian). Monavis ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/30 "2005-05-02T14:12:46Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Just a short note on the Ten Commandments…Have you ever seen the Ten commandments posted in front of any churches? I have looked and haven’t seen any in the areas that I have been…it makes me wonder…Do they just want non- believers to keep the commandments, or would they rather not be reminded; if they are keeping them themselves? The commandments are not broken out of ignorance; Otherwise one would never read about a priest, Sunday school teacher,minister or rabbi doing any wrong, or a( so called “good” Christian). > > Monavis This business with the 10 commandments is nothing new-- only the litigation is new. In the recent case invovling the 10 Cs in Texas, those tablets had been in front of the courthouse since the 50s. It’s just that back then, no one (or very few) would have thought of questioning it. The Republicans are using the religious right as a voting block in a simialr way that the Dems use African-Americans. Both play lip service to their voting blocks, but neither really does anything of substance for them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/31 "2005-05-02T14:30:10Z")
Case in point: Fox. Last night, aired the new episode of _Family Guy_, with references to Jesus and Mel Gibson of a decidedly disrespectful nature. If the esteemed Mr. Dobson had been watching, aides would currently be scraping bits of skull and fecal matter from the walls of his living room. Should we take this to mean that Fox has abandoned its position as Commissar for Disinformation? Have they changed their stripe? Not a bit of it. They are true disciples of the Mammonite Church, they bend in humble genuflection to the Dollar Almighty. The Godgoons are _useful_ to the tighty rightys,and they can be bought so cheaply! For years now, they have been sold a bill of goods: Boy, just as soon as we control Congress and the White House, its back to OzzienHarriet, white, white picket fences and clean sheets unstained by unseemly fluids. Vote for us one more time, just once more into the breech, dear friends… Well, now they have it. And do they sing songs of triumph, as Christian soldiers march to victory? No, no, it seems there is another ghastly impediment to the triumph of the Godly, one more means by which the secular liberals thwart the Will of the Almighty: activist judges. Darn, how’d that get left off The List? Well, OK, then, guys. March in lockstep with us a few more elections, maybe 6, perhaps 10, we’ll see how it goes and _then_ we can enforce your mandate to found the Shining Citadel on the Hill. Been doing if for years, has yet to fail. Which leaves the tighty righties searching for symbolic struggles to take righteous stands upon: gay marriage, Ten Commandments, Terry!.. Issues that look substantial, but in no wise threaten the sacred flow of Business. Mr. Dobson wants to ban Britteny Spears coy little titties, Time Warner _sells_ those titties. Guess who wins? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/32 "2005-05-02T14:31:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Both play lip service to their voting blocks, but neither really does anything of substance for them. _Unless_ they’re in a persistent vegitative state. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/33 "2005-05-02T14:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > No cite, but I remember reading quite recently a comment by a network exec that a classic episode of Seinfeld (where the characters make a bet to see how long they can go without masturbating) could never be broadcast in the present climate. 😕 Do you even watch television? Family Guy? Sex in the City? South Park and Team America: World Police? Being disgustingly pro or anti-anything is pretty much fine on TV. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/34 "2005-05-02T15:00:35Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > 😕 Do you even watch television? Family Guy? Sex in the City? South Park and Team America: World Police? Dude, those are all **cable!** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/35 "2005-05-02T15:04:37Z")
People say that the majority shouldn’t attack the christian fascists, but when Pat Robertson argues that [Federal judges are bigger threat to America than terrorists](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/305721p-261517c.html), how can you _not_? FWIW, Robertson dismisses Frist as a lightweight… ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/36 "2005-05-02T15:04:41Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > There are lots of lies being told about the founding of this country to support their claims. Here’s a little bit of truth to help counter that: > [@Thomas Jefferson](#): > > For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law, or lex non scripta, and commences that of the statute law, or Lex Scripta. This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here, then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/37 "2005-05-02T16:22:11Z")
Since they’re apparently trying to outlaw the teaching of evolution in public schools in Kansas yet again, or so I gather from the BBQ Pit, as well as in my state, yes, I’m afraid of them. You see, I’ve done my share of discussing Christianity on-line, and some of these people seem to think anyone who doesn’t share their precise religious beliefs is a “real Christian.” I’ve read Bill Frist’s polemic about “people of faith”; my Christian faith is the very thing which makes me a liberal on some issues, including gay rights and strongly opposed to a lot of things the Republican party is doing. In four states, it’s now legal for a pharmacist to refuse to fill a prescription for birth control if it violates his or her morality. I also know of at least one case in which a father lost custody of his child because he was a Wiccan. I was told the court order said the only way his child would be allowed to visit him is if he removed all traces of his religion from his home during her(?) visits. These people as a whole have told lies about the founding fathers, the effectiveness of abstinence-only sex education, abortion, and evolution. As far as I can tell, these people not only want to control what I do, but possibly what I believe. Some genuinely believe that a non-Christian cannot be a moral person. Since a closest friends and one of the most moral people I know is a Wiccan (not the one with custody issues), you can see why I’m concerned, even though I’m a devout Christian. CJ ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/38 "2005-05-02T17:11:27Z")
I’m a bit scared as well. > [@Elucidator](#): > > Mr. Dobson wants to ban Britteny Spears coy little titties, Time Warner sells those titties. Guess who wins? And I think that statement highlights the issue. The current political “right” is composed of two groups that sold their soul (pardon the pun) for political power. It includes the religious right, who are generally conservative on social issues, but much less conservative on fiscal policy and economic issues. It also includes the more traditional Republicans - the libertarian-type economic conservatives, but who also tend to be more liberal in terms of social issues. This second group was unable to attain the political power they desired without the religious right. Together, they have brought us to today. I further agree that the Democrats can’t do much about it. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see a schism (again, pardon the pun) develop inside the Republican party. That could lead to a shifting of political party power and perhaps the rise of two new parties. There are plenty of economic conservatives who vote with the democrats these days based on social issues (like myself). I, and others, would have no problem abandoning the Democrats to join with a libertarian-type Republican leader (social liberal, economic conservative). Just such a powerful leader in the Republican party could lead to the split of their current unholy alliance (there I go again…). It could lead to a shifting of our current political axes by 90 degrees, aligning social liberals with economic conservatives, while splitting the social conservatives (religious right) and economic liberals (loony lefties). Or maybe that is just wishful thinking - reverse engineering a political party to approximate my own political leanings… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/39 "2005-05-02T18:00:50Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Since they’re apparently trying to outlaw the teaching of evolution in public schools in Kansas yet again, or so I gather from the BBQ Pit, as well as in my state, yes, I’m afraid of them. If they had any chance in succeeding, I’d share your fear. Time and again, these folks try to get evolution out and creationism in, and time and again they fail. If they were to succeed, I have no doubt that the supreme court would rule against it. It’s a huge step from “under God” in the pledge to “And and Eve” in the classroom. Not to pick on you specifically, but there seems to be a need to over-demonize these folks on this board. Yes, they are ignorant and to a certain extent intolerant. Why is it necessary to inflate the political power they have of injecting religious doctrine into government? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984/40 "2005-05-02T19:14:29Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Here’s a little bit of truth to help counter that: For further correctives, see this article from _The Nation_ “Our Godless Constitution,” by Brooke Allen, 2/3/05 – [http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050221&c=1&s=allen](http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050221&c=1&s=allen) – and this GD thread – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=305094&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=305094&page=1&pp=50). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-afraid-of-the-christian-fascists/301984.md?page=3)