# Who's being the jerk in this financial situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587 "2015-07-08T15:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/61 "2015-07-09T12:41:53Z")
This is much like this guy I used to know, who paid to have certain scrap metal removed from his business. It took me months to get him comfortable with the idea that I could get him a deal where he’d get paid for the material instead. He went from having to pay 2k/month to receiving about 24k/month \*, and was quite pleased. Until he found out that my company was making a comission on the deal, which he just couldn’t deal with (not sure what he was expecting there). Some people cannot help but look in your wallet, and those people are best avoided. I held him to our 18 month contract (to which I had committed on the other side of the deal), after which I wished him good luck doing a direct deal, and goodbye. He’s been calling me recently, but it’s not worth taking the call. (\*details tweaked to preserve some shred of anonimity, gist is unchanged) ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/62 "2015-07-09T12:57:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I haven’t seen the books myself; after re-reading the agreement I see no need to. But while I agree that 2, 3, and 4 are relevant, I don’t think 1 is. I’m curious as to why you don’t? Searching for property, in general, can take a lot of time and effort. Though I’m no expert, I’m sure searching for good property to flip can take at least as much time. My realtor wouldn’t do it for free, so I think it should factor in, here. She pretty much did all the homework and lifting. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/63 "2015-07-09T13:49:03Z")
Really? No value is placed on her years of experience that lead to her recognizing this house had potential? Plus she found it and brought it to you, how does that have no value? Or the awareness that this house was prime for a reno that; a) she could manage, b) accomplish on time, and c) resell for a tidy profit. (Also, offering to help with the hands on work doesn’t turn a transaction from a loan to an investment! She may well have declined (power tool remark aside!) so there would be no room for such confusion!) If the person laying out the money either does not understand the difference between ‘making a loan’, and ‘making an investment’, or bother to find out which this is, that’s totally 100% on them. It was clearly a loan, and wishing it were otherwise doesn’t change it, in my opinion! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/64 "2015-07-09T14:02:00Z")
As long as the investors are first at the trough, getting their investment+20% before Sandra takes her cut, I’m cool with Sandra taking all the remaining profit. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/65 "2015-07-09T14:36:03Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’m willing to bet that the books jerkface saw didn’t include > > 1. Sandra’s pre purchase research time > 2. Sandra’s labour during the project > 3. Sandra’s expertise in design and renovation > 4. Closing costs Along those same lines, what exactly does “chanced to get a look at her books” mean? Did he actually see a total accounting of costs for the house (which I assume he’d have to get from Sandra), or did he just go onto the county tax assessor’s web site and find the purchase and sale prices? Doesn’t really matter, as Sandra’s in the right either way. Just curious, really. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/66 "2015-07-09T14:40:12Z")
Same here. She did all the work and took most of the risk, so she deserves a much higher return than any of the passive investors. It certainly would have been better to have had a written contract. Better still not to do business with family members. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/67 "2015-07-09T16:37:13Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Along those same lines, what exactly does “chanced to get a look at her books” mean? Did he actually see a total accounting of costs for the house (which I assume he’d have to get from Sandra), or did he just go onto the county tax assessor’s web site and find the purchase and sale prices? > > Doesn’t really matter, as Sandra’s in the right either way. Just curious, really. I don’t know how he got a look at her books. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/68 "2015-07-09T16:38:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Same here. She did all the work and took most of the risk, so she deserves a much higher return than any of the passive investors. > > It certainly would have been better to have had a written contract. Better still not to do business with family members. There WAS a written contract. Basically a promissory note. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/69 "2015-07-09T16:41:18Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > I’m curious as to why you don’t? > > Searching for property, in general, can take a lot of time and effort. Though I’m no expert, I’m sure searching for good property to flip can take at least as much time. My realtor wouldn’t do it for free, so I think it should factor in, here. > > She pretty much did all the homework and lifting. No argument there. But it’s not like we had an ongoing concern. She does things like this often, and this once decided she would need help on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/70 "2015-07-09T17:07:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > There WAS a written contract. Basically a promissory note. Oh, okay. Then if it was followed, there’s nothing to whine about. Judgment for Sandra. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/71 "2015-07-09T17:08:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > There WAS a written contract. Basically a promissory note. Well then Jerry should have written something to his liking if he wanted to be an investor for x% of the profit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/72 "2015-07-09T17:11:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > There WAS a written contract. Basically a promissory note. And what was the wording? 20% return or a % of the gain? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/73 "2015-07-09T17:47:29Z")
She didn’t really come looking for help though, she came looking for money, so still just a loan! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/74 "2015-07-09T20:01:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And what was the wording? 20% return or a % of the gain? The former, as I statedd upthread ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/75 "2015-07-09T20:02:58Z")
If Jerry wants to challenge this, Sandra could present an accounting of the number of hours she spent in carpentry and painting and claim compensation for that. It’s possible that the market value of her labor would exceed whatever she made in profits. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/76 "2015-07-09T20:09:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If Jerry wants to challenge this, Sandra could present an accounting of the number of hours she spent in carpentry and painting and claim compensation for that. It’s possible that the market value of her labor would exceed whatever she made in profits. If Jerry wants to challenge it he can take it to court and lose without any accounting. He was promised his investment returned plus 20% and he got it. Case closed. He’s clearly a jerk, and as I mentioned before if Sandra had lost on the deal he’d insist on all he was promised without regard for the family relationship. The world is full of people who think life is unfair because someone else has more than they do, no matter what someone else did to earn what they have. **Skald** , you should use one of those giant brown lake trout, not just some little rainbow you pull out of a stream. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/77 "2015-07-09T20:13:25Z")
I agree that Jerry is wrong, but he might understand if he sees just how much her contribution was worth. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/78 "2015-07-09T20:13:28Z")
Take the cost of the trout out of Jerry’s cut. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/79 "2015-07-09T20:23:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The former, as I statedd upthread Well, no, you have been rather coy about this “my understanding” , etc. Did the contract spell out a fixed 20% return or a % of the profit? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587/80 "2015-07-09T20:29:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, no, you have been rather coy about this “my understanding” , etc. Did the contract spell out a fixed 20% return or a % of the profit? How has he been coy? From the OP: “Thing is, my cash is tied up right now, and time’s a factor if I want to buy it. If y’all each invest X thousand dollars, I can give you a 20% return in about 12 months.”" Jerry’s a jerk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-being-the-jerk-in-this-financial-situation/724587.md?page=5)