# Who's entitled to be called a bro, Bill or Barack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544 "2008-01-22T19:29:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/81 "2008-01-24T16:07:39Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I, a black woman, challenged this assertion with a “sez who?” [/QUOTE] You’re obviously feigning ignorance or not reading my posts- **sez who** - Andrew Young. Jamie Foxx. Toni Morrison. Luther Vandross. Is this enough or should I go on? None are black comedians, we’ve moved on from that. Who says not- you and Jabari Asim, so far. Ah, but you are black and I am not, so my citing my opinion on the subject is automatically wrong- you and Mr Asim speak for the black community. The others above are black, correct? So take me out of the equation and look at the above names and tell me why their opinions don’t matter but yours does. Who named you and Mr. Asim the voice of the black community? And if Obama really is more a bro, why aren’t the big names abandoning Bill? His support and Hilary’s by proxy is very strong among blacks even now- why is that? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/82 "2008-01-24T16:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] But its not just comedians- Toni Morrison I am told is pretty well respected in the black community, as is Andrew Young, Luther Vandross (was), etc. and they and many others think of Bill as a “bro”, or have called him that, is my point. [/quote] The point that you aren’t getting is that _only relative to the other white politicians_ we’ve seen, is Clinton “black”. Funny joke, hahaha. But it’s silly to assume that makes him black in absolute terms. And it definitely doesn’t make him blacker than an actual black man. Trust me on this. Black people have taken good notice of Bill’s fairweather ways as of late, and the love for him is dwindling exponentially. Above all else, his self-entitled attitude and smugness has caused his black card to be revoked. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/83 "2008-01-24T16:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] The point that you aren’t getting is that _only relative to the other white politicians_ we’ve seen, is Clinton “black”. Funny joke, hahaha. But it’s silly to assume that makes him black in absolute terms. And it definitely doesn’t make him blacker than an actual black man. Trust me on this. Black people have taken good notice of Bill’s fairweather ways as of late, and the love for him is dwindling exponentially. Above all else, his self-entitled attitude and smugness has caused his black card to be revoked. [/QUOTE] In absolute terms, no one has in any way shape or from said that Bill is literally more black than Obama- Obama has a black parent, Bill does not, ergo Obama is literally more black. Period. But I think you are being deliberately obtuse as well on the figurative part. You being black above all would know what someone means when they say a white guy is black or a black guy is white. It means the white guy is cool and down with the blacks and the black guy is nerdy and “acts white”. Bill’s fairweather ways I’m unfamiliar with- please enlighten. Jumping in Obama’s shit to help get his wife elected is not an attack on the black community. And where do you see his support dwindling? Just last night they were interviewing some younger black women in a South Carolina hair salon who said they were voting for Clinton- the numbers will tell on that one, sort of, but not really- Bill isn’t running, his wife is. I don’t know how she is viewed in the black community- my guess is cool by association. If Hilary beats Obama in the black SC vote, would that change your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/84 "2008-01-24T16:39:50Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] In absolute terms, no one has in any way shape or from said that Bill is literally more black than Obama- Obama has a black parent, Bill does not, ergo Obama is literally more black. [/quote] I’m not talking about literal. I’m using your “figurative” BS. Only relative to other white people, would anyone think to call Bill “black”. Look, go on thinking whatever you want, man. You are so right. Blacks think Clinton is “downer” than Obama is. You have know way of knowing this of course, but it’s your opinion and you’re free to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/85 "2008-01-24T16:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Look, go on thinking whatever you want, man. You are so right. Blacks think Clinton is “downer” than Obama is. You have know way of knowing this of course, but it’s your opinion and you’re free to have it. [/QUOTE] And you don’t either! Oh but you’re black, so you an automatic authority on the opinions of all other blacks. Does Al Sharpton speak for you? But no, you’re right, I’m wrong, I’ll bow out now and give you the last say. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/86 "2008-01-24T16:57:18Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] You’re nitpicking an exaggeration that has nothing to do with the main point- thousands of black comedians- there probably aren’t even thousands of black comedians on the planet. Perhaps I should have said most black comedians do a bit on ‘Bill is black’. [/quote] I actually toned it down for you, you said “every” black comedian. I know it was an exaggeration, that’s not the point. The point is that you used your exaggeration to make it sound like there was a consensus, and you can’t actually show that consensus exists, because you keep repeating Toni Morrison’s name instead of even mentioning one joke by one black comedian. (Andrew Young did make a joke about it, but it had more to do with Bill Clinton’s reputation for cheating on his wife.) You’re pretty much just sharing stereotypes and generalizations. I know the jokes exist, and I even gave some thoughts on why they exist, but that doesn’t give them a lot of validity or Clinton a lot of street cred. And to recap, you said a while ago that you couldn’t believe anybody would disagree with you that Clinton is figuratively more of a bro than Obama is. ‘Everybody says it,’ you said. ‘Like all those comics on BET.’ ‘Like who?’ ‘Well, I don’t watch BET, but everybody says it. Toni Morrison, Andrew Young, Luther Vandross- you know, _everybody_.’ Are you seeing why I’m unimpressed? > [@](#): > > Toni Morrison I am told is pretty well respected in the black community, as is Andrew Young, Luther Vandross (was), etc. True, but that doesn’t mean everybody shares their opinion. > [@](#): > > and they and many others think of Bill as a “bro”, or have called him that, is my point. Maybe it’s your point now, but I don’t think that’s what your point was. ---
**Author:** ![harrypri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@harrypri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harrypri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/87 "2008-01-24T18:00:14Z")
Since Obama’s mama was a white woman, isn’t he just as much “white” as he is “black”? Or maybe he’s “gray”… ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/88 "2008-01-24T18:06:26Z")
There are [pictures](http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/images/clintonshirtless.jpg) of Bill where he looks like he _needs_ a [bro](http://www.tbs.com/stories/story/0,,69158,00.html). ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/89 "2008-01-24T21:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] And if Obama really is more a bro, why aren’t the big names abandoning Bill? His support and Hilary’s by proxy is very strong among blacks even now- why is that? [/QUOTE] I read somewhere that black people think for themselves, and often have opinions for their own good reasons, rather than mindlessly following a party line spouted by Toni Morrison. For instance, in this case, maybe they, I dunno, think that Hillary would be a better president than Obama, even though other black people think that Obama would be a better president than Hillary. I know! It’s a pretty radical idea. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/90 "2008-01-24T21:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] I read somewhere that black people think for themselves [/QUOTE] No. I’m sure I would have gotten that memo. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/91 "2008-01-25T06:47:05Z")
I think the point is that Barak Obama can’t disguise or change the color of his skin. Despite his multicultural childhood and Ivy League education, he will always be a black man in a society with a long history of racial discrimination and white supremacy. In 1998, Toni Morrison described Bill Clinton as the first black president, but she obviously didn’t mean it literally. Bill Clinton wasn’t part of the elite Washington insiders; he wasn’t raised in an affluent, politically powerful family with clout or influence. He didn’t summer at the Cape, learn to sail on weekends, and go to lobster boils. He is the first president to have an intimate and genuine connection, real or perceived, with the black community. The idea that Clinton is more of a brother than Obama is just dumb and should never have been posed as a question in a debate. :rolleyes: At least, I think it was a debate. Bellow is an article from 2002 – but considering Toni Morrison made her statement ten years ago, it seems appropriate. I happen to love Toni Morrison, whether you agree with her Bill Clinton statement or not, she is an undeniably powerful and important literary voice. > [@](#): > > Nobel prizewinner Toni Morrison, went so far as to call him “our first black president. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children’s lifetime.” “Clinton,” Morrison wrote in the 1998 New Yorker essay, “displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald’s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.” [http://dir.salon.com/story/books/int/2002/02/20/clinton/index.html](http://dir.salon.com/story/books/int/2002/02/20/clinton/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![harrypri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@harrypri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harrypri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/92 "2008-01-25T20:15:20Z")
Toni Morrison: “Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald’s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.” If a white person would have listed those criteria as being “typical black attributes”, he would undoubtedly been labeled “racist”. Double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/93 "2008-01-25T21:04:38Z")
[QUOTE=harrypri] Toni Morrison: “Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald’s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.” If a white person would have listed those criteria as being “typical black attributes”, he would undoubtedly been labeled “racist”. Double standard. [/QUOTE] You’re right. You’ve uncovered clear evidence that Toni Morrison hates black people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/94 "2008-01-25T21:12:36Z")
[QUOTE=harrypri] If a white person would have listed those criteria as being “typical black attributes”, he would undoubtedly been labeled “racist”. Double standard. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: She didn’t say it was a “typical black attribute,” she said it was a “trope,” in the sense of a stereotypical characteristic. Does anybody else sometimes think there are people out there who just sit around and wait for chances to complain that minorities are getting unfair benefits from “double standards?” ---
**Author:** ![harrypri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@harrypri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harrypri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544/95 "2008-01-25T21:39:23Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Does anybody else sometimes think there are people out there who just sit around and wait for chances to complain that minorities are getting unfair benefits from “double standards?” [/QUOTE] I didn’t say anything about minorities getting unfair benefits. Either you misread my post or you just don’t undrstand it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-entitled-to-be-called-a-bro-bill-or-barack/434544.md?page=4)